Forums > Wing Foiling General

transition wing from moses 1100

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Created by ratz 2 months ago, 15 Jun 2022
ratz
WA, 455 posts
15 Jun 2022 7:19PM
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hi all
am currently using a moses 1100 front wing on my wing foil set up
what size wing have people gone to after learning on the 1100
cheers ratz

NicoDC
161 posts
15 Jun 2022 9:20PM
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ratz said..
hi all
am currently using a moses 1100 front wing on my wing foil set up
what size wing have people gone to after learning on the 1100
cheers ratz


I have the w1100 and 950. Going to the 950 was the right step for me and still is a good combination. The 950 is the smaller brother so if you enjoy the 1100, you'll be good.

Jeroensurf
662 posts
15 Jun 2022 11:09PM
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I had a lot of SAb foils (and still have), when buying new I would go for the 945.It as fast and easy to use as the 950 but without the ventilation when you turn tighter, but if you can find a cheap used 950 it is an okay wing as well.

sunsetsailboards
333 posts
16 Jun 2022 12:57AM
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ratz said..
hi all
am currently using a moses 1100 front wing on my wing foil set up
what size wing have people gone to after learning on the 1100
cheers ratz


can you elaborate on your current riding abilities and what you are looking for in a new wing? Also, which mast, fuselage, and stab are you running?

waterlife
VIC, 77 posts
16 Jun 2022 1:05PM
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I went down the 950 path after the 1100. I have a cheap 950 Moses foil if you're after one. No longer use it as I've changed brands Located Melbourne - Australia

ratz
WA, 455 posts
16 Jun 2022 2:15PM
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yeah i am keen
p.m with details ie price and condition cheers ratz

warwickl
NSW, 1912 posts
16 Jun 2022 4:19PM
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I was a Moses fan for years until I got the 950 and due to miss information and unmatching performance etc I changed brands.

Frankieboy
61 posts
16 Jun 2022 11:10PM
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Depends if you want to build a 2-wing quiver or just replace your 1100 with a smaller one.
Also wheight, wind conditions and riding style matters
You could go the following ways:
- 1100 / 950
- 1110 / 1000
- 999/899/799/699
- 945 / 940
or any combinaision of those !

PatsSurf70
9 posts
17 Jun 2022 3:44AM
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Think this can help.

Poimax05
34 posts
17 Jun 2022 6:53AM
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warwickl said..
I was a Moses fan for years until I got the 950 and due to miss information and unmatching performance etc I changed brands.


Hi,

Can you be a little more specific ? Which "unmatching performance" ?

ActionSportsWA
WA, 861 posts
17 Jun 2022 11:17AM
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warwickl said..
I was a Moses fan for years until I got the 950 and due to miss information and unmatching performance etc I changed brands.


Can you not demo different wings etc from your local? We have demo's in almost all wings and setups for SABFoil. Highly recommend demoing prior to purchase as everything is subtly different and riders have quite subjective reviews.

DM

sunsetsailboards
333 posts
17 Jun 2022 1:33PM
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Poimax05 said..

warwickl said..
I was a Moses fan for years until I got the 950 and due to miss information and unmatching performance etc I changed brands.



Hi,

Can you be a little more specific ? Which "unmatching performance" ?


i seem to remember there was a typo on the SAB website listing the area at ~1600cm2 when it was supposed to be ~1300cm2. For some, it did not have the expected low end and the jump down from W1100 left too large a gap.

DukeSilver
WA, 370 posts
17 Jun 2022 5:08PM
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Yeah, I bought the Sab W950 as my first wing. It was fine to learn on, but needed a lot more wind than I was expecting for my 85kg. A min of 15kts using a 5m Ozone Wasp to get up when learning. Just got a second hand W1100 and what a revelation in lighter winds.

ratz
WA, 455 posts
17 Jun 2022 6:20PM
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Something a bit faster and also quicker to turn
i currently have a 82 mast and what I think is the 700 hs fuse and 450 stab
riding ability is currently barely above beginner.

Poimax05
34 posts
17 Jun 2022 9:55PM
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sunsetsailboards said..

Poimax05 said..


warwickl said..
I was a Moses fan for years until I got the 950 and due to miss information and unmatching performance etc I changed brands.




Hi,

Can you be a little more specific ? Which "unmatching performance" ?



i seem to remember there was a typo on the SAB website listing the area at ~1600cm2 when it was supposed to be ~1300cm2. For some, it did not have the expected low end and the jump down from W1100 left too large a gap.


Ok that makes sense. I alsot learnt on the 1100, and switched over to the 950 for higher wind days. I also changed from a 130L board to a 90L at the same time, and I really struggled initially to reach proper take of speed with the 950. I think the 1100 has such a great low end that it can mislead people starting the sport on the real capacity of a 5m wing... And the actual process to pump a small board onto foil.

I also sometimes wish SABfoil did not leave such a gap between these 2 sister wings. Looks like a 1600-1700 cm2 wing would have it's place in the quiver for beginners and intermediate. Many other brands offer such surface.

I think SABfoil made the bet that once a rider would be efficient at pumping (and able to jibe to avoid takeing off on every tack), the gap was the right one between the 2 wings, with about 2 knots difference. While the gap is probably 5-6 knots for beginners.
It seems a lot of people prefer the 945 (no ventilation due to winglet), but I also read that for flat water the 950 remains better since it has better glide (which matters a lot to me for my spot with inconsistant wind). Anyone who tried both can confirm ?

Also, this year, I bought an F-One 7M CWC. I tried it with the 1100 and honestly, I did not like so much the combo. Too much overall drag once up (lots of pull in the arms) , upwind capability is far from great, and takeoff is either impossible (no wind) , or "too easy". I think the the large 7M wing will pair much better with a more efficient front wing. So it will either be 7M and 950, or 5M with 1100, and I expect close to equal bottom end for both setups. Did other came to the same conclusion ?

WST
74 posts
25 Jun 2022 4:03PM
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I think you need to test.

I also use the same set as you, 1100 FW 450 BW 82M 72 F

I tested a lot of other foils, I talked to SAB Foil Pro riders and the Sabfoil distributor.
You got different answers to the same questions.
On would recommend just using the 399 BW, for more agility and speed. another one said the 399 is very hard to control as the comfort window of this backwind is very small, another one said the 450 can't be fast because it is made for easy going with the winglets that's why I should take the 483.
In the end, one very good rider who got second in the pro races from my lake used the 950 with the 450.

So better test the combinations that fit best to your style and your local conditions.

And sizes for the surface area aren't comparable anymore. I used an F-One SevenSeas 1200 for testing, and I could pump myself onto the foil in just a 10kn gust.

Taavi
29 posts
26 Jun 2022 1:57PM
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There are lots of options now, But depending on your riding level now, if you are comfortable on a w1100 and just want to progress to something faster, and if you happen to find a used w950, go for it. I'd say size wise the gap between the w1100 and w950 is perfect.

Use the w950 with a big stabiliser (like a s483) at first, and once comfortable, switch to a smaller stab. I had some wind foiling background, so perhaps for me it was a bit easier to learn to wing foil, but on my 12th day of wing foiling the w950 / s483 setup felt already perfectly comfortable and then it kept to be exciting to ride for quite some time. The 950 pumps well enough even without any swell. Definitely adds plenty of speed / glide compared to the w1100, that would help you to fly through the moves.

Foilsport
VIC, 4 posts
29 Jun 2022 11:07AM
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Good question Ratz ,
I have now gone to the w999 its basically a continuation from the Balz Pro wings that come in 799 and 899. Rounded tips and a foil shape that has heaps of control and lift. The size is 1747 cm 2 but don't get to caught up on cm2 measures. the foil section and wing shape are more important.
I also went from 450 stab to the 425. This combo (999 and 425 compared to 1100 and 450) has similar lift higher speed more control.
So to answer you question this is the logical next step for me then simply use 799 or the new 699 as the the higher wind or bigger wave step down. Same stab.

Foxi
11 posts
29 Jun 2022 3:58PM
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Foilsport said..
Good question Ratz ,
I have now gone to the w999 its basically a continuation from the Balz Pro wings that come in 799 and 899. Rounded tips and a foil shape that has heaps of control and lift. The size is 1747 cm 2 but don't get to caught up on cm2 measures. the foil section and wing shape are more important.
I also went from 450 stab to the 425. This combo (999 and 425 compared to 1100 and 450) has similar lift higher speed more control.
So to answer you question this is the logical next step for me then simply use 799 or the new 699 as the the higher wind or bigger wave step down. Same stab.




Friend of mine owns both W999 and W1100 and in fresh water conditions he clearly states the W999 to be inferior in low end (incl pumpability)
There is a 20% difference in surface area which can?t be fully made up with a thicker profile, which finally also limits W999s gliding properties.
His recommendation is to firstly try W1100 with one of the new smaller stabs, changing its character significantly towards livelyness.
Of course the ventilation issue remains for those you have major issues with it.

Poimax05
34 posts
29 Jun 2022 7:29PM
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Any feedback on which smaller stab is the best with the 1100 or 950 ? Is the S425 the only option (from the 483) ?

Or will the 399 work good too for max top speed ? I have read somewhere that only th 450 /483/425 work for these 2 wings, but I would hate to spend 400$ for a stab that barely makes a difference....

Foilsport
VIC, 4 posts
30 Jun 2022 8:06AM
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`I find the 399 the best for everything. If I had to choose 1 that would be it. Especially at the higher speed. It is the Stab used on the kite race foil that goes way faster than Wind Wing
The 425 is great also. You can go smaller stab with the longer fuse.
I am 95 kg.
never had any ventilation at speed.
If you are reaching the top end of a wing give it a sand. Makes a massive difference. Especially in fresh water.

Poimax05
34 posts
30 Jun 2022 6:44AM
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So you tried the 399 with the 950 and 1100 ? It can offer a balance ride ?

When you say sand, you mean remove all glossy finish with wet standing (1000+ grit ) ?

Foilsport
VIC, 4 posts
4 Jul 2022 2:53PM
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Yes 399 with both of those wings is fine and so is the 425. If your on the HS - High Strength fuse make sure you have around 1.5 deg of shim works best for me.
I would remove all gloss with 600-1000 finish the lower the number the more control basically.
Call if you like 0405687303

WST
74 posts
8 Jul 2022 4:16PM
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Foilsport said..
Yes 399 with both of those wings is fine and so is the 425. If your on the HS - High Strength fuse make sure you have around 1.5 deg of shim works best for me.
I would remove all gloss with 600-1000 finish the lower the number the more control basically.
Call if you like 0405687303


you mean without gloss the foil will have more control? what skill level is needed to feel the difference?you have pictures how the foil would look like after all gloss (so mast, front wing & back wing) is removed ?

3TOB
11 posts
15 Jul 2022 11:54PM
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Poimax05 said..
Any feedback on which smaller stab is the best with the 1100 or 950 ? Is the S425 the only option (from the 483) ?

Or will the 399 work good too for max top speed ? I have read somewhere that only th 450 /483/425 work for these 2 wings, but I would hate to spend 400$ for a stab that barely makes a difference....


I really liked the 330 stab with the 950. 85 kg. Intermediate. Preferred to 483. Mast could be moved back to centre with that combo.

Poimax05
34 posts
16 Jul 2022 12:23AM
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The 330 is listed as a stabilizer for kite / youth. Did you mean the 430 ?



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"transition wing from moses 1100" started by ratz