Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

How to get that "flying on the edge" feeling?

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Created by thedoor 2 months ago, 2 Jun 2022
thedoor
1650 posts
26 Jun 2022 7:55AM
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Re front strap. Looks like i could go one hole narrower


decrepit
WA, 11156 posts
26 Jun 2022 9:32AM
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yes, It's normal for the front and back holes to match, unless you have very wide feet

mariachi76
106 posts
26 Jun 2022 2:28PM
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Hi Duzzi, thedoor, windflyer,

since you are all from the bay area (know thedoor and windflyer personally),

I am sharing my latest slalom video in rather lightwind conditions (16-18kn). Used my iSOnic 7.2 and a 7.8 sail (I weigh 82kg).
In the previous couple of sessions I had my rear footstraps in the back position, and also had a feeling of no weight on the front foot. So I tried to move the rear straps to the front position. It gave me a tad more pressure on the front foot, but made the board very sticky on the water. It felt good. Max speed I reached was around 27.2 kn. I guess next time I'll try the mastfoot a bit back (had it about 1cm towards the front) and will try the boom slightly higher to make the board fly more.
Here's the video, happy for any comments to improve my gear tuning and stance.



best,
mariachi76

thedoor
1650 posts
27 Jun 2022 1:24AM
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mariachi76 said..
Hi Duzzi, thedoor, windflyer,

since you are all from the bay area (know thedoor and windflyer personally),

I am sharing my latest slalom video in rather lightwind conditions (16-18kn). Used my iSOnic 7.2 and a 7.8 sail (I weigh 82kg).
In the previous couple of sessions I had my rear footstraps in the back position, and also had a feeling of no weight on the front foot. So I tried to move the rear straps to the front position. It gave me a tad more pressure on the front foot, but made the board very sticky on the water. It felt good. Max speed I reached was around 27.2 kn. I guess next time I'll try the mastfoot a bit back (had it about 1cm towards the front) and will try the boom slightly higher to make the board fly more.
Here's the video, happy for any comments to improve my gear tuning and stance.



best,
mariachi76

Sweet footage.

We gotta do some speed runs again. Looks like we are pretty close to the same level. Duzzi and Windflyer welcome too, I think they have us on experience but every dog has its day

duzzi
735 posts
27 Jun 2022 11:56PM
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Select to expand quote
thedoor said..







mariachi76 said..
Hi Duzzi, thedoor, windflyer,

since you are all from the bay area (know thedoor and windflyer personally),

I am sharing my latest slalom video in rather lightwind conditions (16-18kn). Used my iSOnic 7.2 and a 7.8 sail (I weigh 82kg).
In the previous couple of sessions I had my rear footstraps in the back position, and also had a feeling of no weight on the front foot. So I tried to move the rear straps to the front position. It gave me a tad more pressure on the front foot, but made the board very sticky on the water. It felt good. Max speed I reached was around 27.2 kn. I guess next time I'll try the mastfoot a bit back (had it about 1cm towards the front) and will try the boom slightly higher to make the board fly more.
Here's the video, happy for any comments to improve my gear tuning and stance.



best,
mariachi76




Sweet footage.

We gotta do some speed runs again. Looks like we are pretty close to the same level. Duzzi and Windflyer welcome too, I think they have us on experience but every dog has its day



Not sure about being more experienced, but I think I am retiring into freeride sailing! Nowadays I am mostly on camless sails, fast ones, but still, and don't seem to have any desire left for sailing overpowered in swell and a race sail! I'll leave "speed runs" (in quotes, I am lucky if I touch above 30 knots for those silly 2") to the easy Candlestick "flat water". Serious speed is out ... and slalom racing at Crissy seems like something from a different life! Aging can be good, but it takes its toll, or ones desires shift ...

thedoor
1650 posts
28 Jun 2022 12:41PM
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Select to expand quote
duzzi said..

thedoor said..








mariachi76 said..
Hi Duzzi, thedoor, windflyer,

since you are all from the bay area (know thedoor and windflyer personally),

I am sharing my latest slalom video in rather lightwind conditions (16-18kn). Used my iSOnic 7.2 and a 7.8 sail (I weigh 82kg).
In the previous couple of sessions I had my rear footstraps in the back position, and also had a feeling of no weight on the front foot. So I tried to move the rear straps to the front position. It gave me a tad more pressure on the front foot, but made the board very sticky on the water. It felt good. Max speed I reached was around 27.2 kn. I guess next time I'll try the mastfoot a bit back (had it about 1cm towards the front) and will try the boom slightly higher to make the board fly more.
Here's the video, happy for any comments to improve my gear tuning and stance.



best,
mariachi76





Sweet footage.

We gotta do some speed runs again. Looks like we are pretty close to the same level. Duzzi and Windflyer welcome too, I think they have us on experience but every dog has its day




Not sure about being more experienced, but I think I am retiring into freeride sailing! Nowadays I am mostly on camless sails, fast ones, but still, and don't seem to have any desire left for sailing overpowered in swell and a race sail! I'll leave "speed runs" (in quotes, I am lucky if I touch above 30 knots for those silly 2") to the easy Candlestick "flat water". Serious speed is out ... and slalom racing at Crissy seems like something from a different life! Aging can be good, but it takes its toll, or ones desires shift ...


fair enough, this is my first foray into slalom/"speed" sailing so I am pretty pumped about it for now. Who knows what I will be into in a year of two

duzzi
735 posts
28 Jun 2022 11:49PM
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Select to expand quote
thedoor said..




duzzi said..





thedoor said..












mariachi76 said..
Hi Duzzi, thedoor, windflyer,

since you are all from the bay area (know thedoor and windflyer personally),

I am sharing my latest slalom video in rather lightwind conditions (16-18kn). Used my iSOnic 7.2 and a 7.8 sail (I weigh 82kg).
In the previous couple of sessions I had my rear footstraps in the back position, and also had a feeling of no weight on the front foot. So I tried to move the rear straps to the front position. It gave me a tad more pressure on the front foot, but made the board very sticky on the water. It felt good. Max speed I reached was around 27.2 kn. I guess next time I'll try the mastfoot a bit back (had it about 1cm towards the front) and will try the boom slightly higher to make the board fly more.
Here's the video, happy for any comments to improve my gear tuning and stance.



best,
mariachi76









Sweet footage.

We gotta do some speed runs again. Looks like we are pretty close to the same level. Duzzi and Windflyer welcome too, I think they have us on experience but every dog has its day








Not sure about being more experienced, but I think I am retiring into freeride sailing! Nowadays I am mostly on camless sails, fast ones, but still, and don't seem to have any desire left for sailing overpowered in swell and a race sail! I'll leave "speed runs" (in quotes, I am lucky if I touch above 30 knots for those silly 2") to the easy Candlestick "flat water". Serious speed is out ... and slalom racing at Crissy seems like something from a different life! Aging can be good, but it takes its toll, or ones desires shift ...






fair enough, this is my first foray into slalom/"speed" sailing so I am pretty pumped about it for now. Who knows what I will be into in a year of two





It's fun! I am just being lazy!!!!

But on a different take. I was looking at the results of the 1 hour Classic at Garda. Foils and fin in two different days. The absolute fin record held, but this year foil was almost two laps faster, top speed around 32-33 knots and average a stunning 27 knots (over one hour!).

Just saying, because you foil, in open water foil speed, over 500m-nautical mile or more, are getting better than fin.

The two races, foil at 2'27"
?

thedoor
1650 posts
29 Jun 2022 3:07AM
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Select to expand quote
duzzi said..

thedoor said..





duzzi said..






thedoor said..













mariachi76 said..
Hi Duzzi, thedoor, windflyer,

since you are all from the bay area (know thedoor and windflyer personally),

I am sharing my latest slalom video in rather lightwind conditions (16-18kn). Used my iSOnic 7.2 and a 7.8 sail (I weigh 82kg).
In the previous couple of sessions I had my rear footstraps in the back position, and also had a feeling of no weight on the front foot. So I tried to move the rear straps to the front position. It gave me a tad more pressure on the front foot, but made the board very sticky on the water. It felt good. Max speed I reached was around 27.2 kn. I guess next time I'll try the mastfoot a bit back (had it about 1cm towards the front) and will try the boom slightly higher to make the board fly more.
Here's the video, happy for any comments to improve my gear tuning and stance.



best,
mariachi76










Sweet footage.

We gotta do some speed runs again. Looks like we are pretty close to the same level. Duzzi and Windflyer welcome too, I think they have us on experience but every dog has its day









Not sure about being more experienced, but I think I am retiring into freeride sailing! Nowadays I am mostly on camless sails, fast ones, but still, and don't seem to have any desire left for sailing overpowered in swell and a race sail! I'll leave "speed runs" (in quotes, I am lucky if I touch above 30 knots for those silly 2") to the easy Candlestick "flat water". Serious speed is out ... and slalom racing at Crissy seems like something from a different life! Aging can be good, but it takes its toll, or ones desires shift ...







fair enough, this is my first foray into slalom/"speed" sailing so I am pretty pumped about it for now. Who knows what I will be into in a year of two






It's fun! I am just being lazy!!!!

But on a different take. I was looking at the results of the 1 hour Classic at Garda. Foils and fin in two different days. The absolute fin record held, but this year foil was almost two laps faster, top speed around 32-33 knots and average a stunning 27 knots (over one hour!).

Just saying, because you foil, in open water foil speed, over 500m-nautical mile or more, are getting better than fin.

The two races, foil at 2'27"
?


The kind of foiling i do is a completely different animal to that slalom/race foiling.

duzzi
735 posts
30 Jun 2022 11:16PM
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Select to expand quote
thedoor said..




duzzi said..



thedoor said..




duzzi said..



thedoor said..




mariachi76 said..
Hi Duzzi, thedoor, windflyer,

since you are all from the bay area (know thedoor and windflyer personally),

I am sharing my latest slalom video in rather lightwind conditions (16-18kn). Used my iSOnic 7.2 and a 7.8 sail (I weigh 82kg).
In the previous couple of sessions I had my rear footstraps in the back position, and also had a feeling of no weight on the front foot. So I tried to move the rear straps to the front position. It gave me a tad more pressure on the front foot, but made the board very sticky on the water. It felt good. Max speed I reached was around 27.2 kn. I guess next time I'll try the mastfoot a bit back (had it about 1cm towards the front) and will try the boom slightly higher to make the board fly more.
Here's the video, happy for any comments to improve my gear tuning and stance.



best,
mariachi76














Sweet footage.

We gotta do some speed runs again. Looks like we are pretty close to the same level. Duzzi and Windflyer welcome too, I think they have us on experience but every dog has its day













Not sure about being more experienced, but I think I am retiring into freeride sailing! Nowadays I am mostly on camless sails, fast ones, but still, and don't seem to have any desire left for sailing overpowered in swell and a race sail! I'll leave "speed runs" (in quotes, I am lucky if I touch above 30 knots for those silly 2") to the easy Candlestick "flat water". Serious speed is out ... and slalom racing at Crissy seems like something from a different life! Aging can be good, but it takes its toll, or ones desires shift ...











fair enough, this is my first foray into slalom/"speed" sailing so I am pretty pumped about it for now. Who knows what I will be into in a year of two










It's fun! I am just being lazy!!!!

But on a different take. I was looking at the results of the 1 hour Classic at Garda. Foils and fin in two different days. The absolute fin record held, but this year foil was almost two laps faster, top speed around 32-33 knots and average a stunning 27 knots (over one hour!).

Just saying, because you foil, in open water foil speed, over 500m-nautical mile or more, are getting better than fin.

The two races, foil at 2'27"
?






The kind of foiling i do is a completely different animal to that slalom/race foiling.





Just a challenge! The pros look amazing on foil, and the speed foils now achieve in open water slalom conditions seems to be in the same ballpark of a fin.

On different news, I got the Tectonics Phoenix 31 for the AV slalom 60/88L. It takes the place of the Phoenix 33 that I used on my old Exocet Slalom 62 wide. I tried it yesterday in nutty conditions (0 to 20 knots from three directions, with cross chop) and result is as predicted: less lift, even more control passing over chop, goes upwind as well. Curious to see how it will work with the AV foot straps all the way back.

It is a lovely fin, Parton is now using a greenish G10 (in the photo it looks blue):


thedoor
1650 posts
3 Jul 2022 1:26PM
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decrepit said..
yes, It's normal for the front and back holes to match, unless you have very wide feet


Ok tried narrower frontstraps and had way less of that front foot feeling of flying so that is good. But i did run into some trouble just trying to get me foot in so made them taller. I do have high arches so maybe that makes sense?


decrepit
WA, 11156 posts
3 Jul 2022 4:29PM
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That's the way I always adjust them.

Ben1973
795 posts
9 Jul 2022 3:17AM
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55cm fin, 9.4overdrive on a falcon 140 in 18knots gets you flying on the fin. Just got back from 2 hours of hell with that set up, it was only 14knots when i headed out

thedoor
1650 posts
9 Jul 2022 7:02AM
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Ben1973 said..
55cm fin, 9.4overdrive on a falcon 140 in 18knots gets you flying on the fin. Just got back from 2 hours of hell with that set up, it was only 14knots when i headed out


9.4m + 140L. Been wondering if I should have a larger slalom board, My current biggest is 116L which seems to handle my biggest sail of 7.8m fine. Kind of intrigued by this combo board

www.tillo-international.com/?page_id=474

AUS02
TAS, 1954 posts
9 Jul 2022 9:59AM
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On the edge with an 8.6m on a 138L:




decrepit
WA, 11156 posts
9 Jul 2022 8:31AM
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Above photo tells a story, look at board trim, windward rail is up, so the whole board is getting aerodynamic lift.
As well as the sail being raked to windward.
The subtle art of flying just above the surface. "Wish I could do that"!

thedoor
1650 posts
9 Jul 2022 2:22PM
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AUS02 said..
On the edge with an 8.6m on a 138L:





epic

Imax1
QLD, 3867 posts
9 Jul 2022 8:10PM
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decrepit said..
Above photo tells a story, look at board trim, windward rail is up, so the whole board is getting aerodynamic lift.
As well as the sail being raked to windward.
The subtle art of flying just above the surface. "Wish I could do that"!


I like a big board , sail and fin and get that floaty feeling now and then for a second or so . To be able to do that constantly is skill I don't have . Being comfortable overpowered is next level .

sailquik
VIC, 5849 posts
10 Jul 2022 4:55PM
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Imax1 said..
.......... Being comfortable overpowered is next level .




What is 'overpowered'? If you are 'comfortable', isn't that NOT 'overpowered'? To me 'overpowered' is when I am not at all comfortable, and in an incipient crash situation most of the time - until I do crash! . I have very rarely continued to sail like that except for a very few, short, epic speed runs, some of which did result in epic crashes.

But really, on almost all of my fastest speed runs, I felt very much in control during the fastest part. It was the run-in and bearaway where I was most out of control and I would call that 'overpowered'. The end of the fastest runs at Sandy Point were often very scary/verge of out of control, trying to slow down in the chop, but I would not say that I was 'overpowered' as I had sheeted out completely. But that was where most of my crashes occurred.

I guess my point is that 'overpowered' and 'comfortable' can't go together. And even 'fully, or max. powered is never that 'comfortable', at least in my experience.

Imax1
QLD, 3867 posts
10 Jul 2022 6:50PM
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^^^^
I get what your saying . I'm heavy so I'm always overpowered. I suppose my overpowered is when my back hand loads up past the comfort stage and all my weight is on my back foot and the fin either spins out or starts flying out of control . I'm presuming max speed over chop is in that zone .

duzzi
735 posts
11 Jul 2022 12:43AM
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sailquik said..



Imax1 said..
.......... Being comfortable overpowered is next level .




What is 'overpowered'? If you are 'comfortable', isn't that NOT 'overpowered'? To me 'overpowered' is when I am not at all comfortable, and in an incipient crash situation most of the time - until I do crash! . I have very rarely continued to sail like that except for a very few, short, epic speed runs, some of which did result in epic crashes.

But really, on almost all of my fastest speed runs, I felt very much in control during the fastest part. It was the run-in and bearaway where I was most out of control and I would call that 'overpowered'. The end of the fastest runs at Sandy Point were often very scary/verge of out of control, trying to slow down in the chop, but I would not say that I was 'overpowered' as I had sheeted out completely. But that was where most of my crashes occurred.

I guess my point is that 'overpowered' and 'comfortable' can't go together. And even 'fully, or max. powered is never that 'comfortable', at least in my experience.



For me "overpowered" simply means that you are using a sail that is more than enough for the conditions. For example, I am regularly out with 6.0-6.5 when people are freestyling or B&J with 4.2-4.7. And a better/heavier slalom sailor could easily be out with an additional square meter. Sailing overpowered is normal on a slalom board, right? It does not mean that you are out of control!

BTW: that 8.6/138L shot is quite amazing! He is powered up! (and obviously overpowered)

mariachi76
106 posts
11 Jul 2022 1:45AM
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AUS02 said..
On the edge with an 8.6m on a 138L:





Amazing pic! I have the Overdrive 8.6 M2, and an iSonic 72/123L. But quite often when I try to fly like this, and the fin is half out of the water, I get spinouts, at least when on a beam reach.
Not insinuating that the culprit is my gear (but rather my technique): which fin size do you use for the iSonic 83 / Mach2 8.6? Whats your weight?

best,
mariachi76

AUS02
TAS, 1954 posts
11 Jul 2022 7:08AM
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That pic was taken near the end of a race on an iSonic 85 (139L) with a 46 Tectonic Carbon Volt. Race was a around a single mark on the other side of the river, so a reach over and back. A freshening breeze with lighter wind across the other side, so needed to rig a bit bigger to be able to point if the wind swung at all and to get through any lulls. Sail fully out-hauled in the photo and it was getting a little overpowered at that stage for a beam reach. Max 2-second would have been not long before that photo was taken (29.416 knots), with a NM finishing at the finish of 27.857 knots. Weight - 95kg.

cald
QLD, 141 posts
11 Jul 2022 7:37AM
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Imax1 said..
^^^^
I get what your saying . I'm heavy so I'm always overpowered. I suppose my overpowered is when my back hand loads up past the comfort stage and all my weight is on my back foot and the fin either spins out or starts flying out of control . I'm presuming max speed over chop is in that zone .




Slightly before that point I would suggest, If you are backfoot loaded your not fast in my experience at least in chop. You want to be very lifty on the fin but leveling the board with the front foot to keep it flying and not tail walking. It's a fine balance and in the chop where we sail its easy to walk and it its also easy to catch a bit of rail due to being too flat with the board.

decrepit
WA, 11156 posts
11 Jul 2022 8:20AM
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For me, over powered puts you in survival mode and you have to slow down to maintain control. If I can still sail flat out, I'm not overpowered.

Yes I know, slowing down increases sail pressure and makes the overpowering worse. Sheeting out just leads to tail walking.

It's a very fine line how to cope, especially with only a 20cm fin

cald
QLD, 141 posts
11 Jul 2022 1:49PM
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decrepit said..
For me, over powered puts you in survival mode and you have to slow down to maintain control. If I can still sail flat out, I'm not overpowered.

Yes I know, slowing down increases sail pressure and makes the overpowering worse. Sheeting out just leads to tail walking.

It's a very fine line how to cope, especially with only a 20cm fin


+1 overpowered to me means you can't sail with the gear in trim anymore and are going slower because of it. If you have plenty of power but can stay in trim on the edge of control then congrats, you nailed the gear choice and tuning



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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"How to get that "flying on the edge" feeling?" started by thedoor