Forums > Windsurfing Foiling

Phantasm PFI 928 vs i99 for light air

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Created by Foulweatherjack 1 month ago, 27 Jun 2022
Foulweatherjack
29 posts
27 Jun 2022 2:23AM
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So I've been wind foiling now for a little over a year and I've reached the point where I can foil about 50% of the time in the light air where I live.

Background: I'm 60 years old, have been windsurfing since 1975 (advanced but by no means expert skills), and live on a tidal, salt water river near Savannah, Georgia with typical afternoon sea breezes of 8-12 mph. I'm 5'9" and weigh 160# (that's 175 cm tall and about 73 kg for you Europeans).

Current Gear:
Starboard FoilX 145
Severne 7.0 foil sail
Slingshot Hoverglide i99 in "C" position on the fuselage (I also have an i76 for heavier air)

I've heard great things about the Phantasm series of foils, but most of the reviews I've read have been for the smaller 730 wing. Does anyone have real world experience with the larger 928 Phantasm wing? I'm wondering if it would be worth making the switch to the Phantasm for the lighter air I typically sail in.

Any advice or comments will be welcome

Grantmac
1485 posts
27 Jun 2022 4:50AM
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Just about any high aspect foil would be a huge improvement in those conditions if you are an effective pumper.

KDog
202 posts
27 Jun 2022 5:15AM
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Have never used the 928 but have seen it next to the I99.Looks like a refined version of the 99 I don't think you'll gain much in early flight but it would be faster because it's thinner and like SS says more refined. I would be looking at a high aspect wing for early flight and they have the ability to glide better through light wind and are generally a bit faster. Phantasm does offer the 926 in HA but 8 to 12 mph may be a bit lite for that wing depending on one's ability also does your Foil X145 only have a tuttle box?that may come into play when looking at another foil.

thedoor
1650 posts
27 Jun 2022 6:55AM
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The only think I might consider with such a large front wing is the M6 bolts wing to fuse. Someone on here was having trouble with the Moses 1100 staying on, anyways since moses/sabfoil upgraded the front wing bolts to M8

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Moses-advice?page=1

Foulweatherjack
29 posts
27 Jun 2022 9:07AM
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Thanks for the replies. In no particular order, my pumping skills are marginal but slowly improving. The FoilX 145 does have a deep Tuttle box. I'm not sure about the screws to the fuselage.

I do notice that the Phantasm 928 is a very low aspect foil with a large chord. Would a higher aspect ratio foil actually provide more lift at low speeds?

Sandman1221
2068 posts
27 Jun 2022 10:03AM
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Foulweatherjack said..
Thanks for the replies. In no particular order, my pumping skills are marginal but slowly improving. The FoilX 145 does have a deep Tuttle box. I'm not sure about the screws to the fuselage.

I do notice that the Phantasm 928 is a very low aspect foil with a large chord. Would a higher aspect ratio foil actually provide more lift at low speeds?


A higher aspect wing will have less drag and so with proper pumping will get up easier and fly faster than a lower aspect wing, but based on the definition of aspect it provides less lift, I think!

sl55
122 posts
27 Jun 2022 11:23AM
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After i99 you will be disappointed with 928. Yes, Phantasm looks way sexier but it does not lift as early (more like i84) and has way less pitch stability in light wind. I think the problem is the stab that is way smaller and less powerful. I am sure they tried to develop "one stab fits all" and ended up leaning heavily towards winging, kiting, high speed windfoiling and forgetting about light wind.

Stretchy
WA, 784 posts
27 Jun 2022 1:43PM
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Big thick low aspect wings will get you on the foil early, but they're also draggy, don't glide particularly well and will fall of the foil quickly (based on my experience with SB Supercruiser). A slim high aspect foil will help you stay on the foil better once you're up due to the better speed and ability to glide through lulls.

PatK
226 posts
27 Jun 2022 3:53PM
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sl55 said..
After i99 you will be disappointed with 928. Yes, Phantasm looks way sexier but it does not lift as early (more like i84) and has way less pitch stability in light wind. I think the problem is the stab that is way smaller and less powerful. I am sure they tried to develop "one stab fits all" and ended up leaning heavily towards winging, kiting, high speed windfoiling and forgetting about light wind.



I agree. My surfbuddy got a wizard 114 and phantasm 730 and was very disappointed when he tried and tried to get up without success. After some sessions playing flappy buoy for me i gave him my sab frontwings to try. With the 999 (1750cm2) he was very happy and ordered one. Now we can foil together.
Best thing of the phantasm is the compatibility to sab. Sadly only the frontwings.
We are at the swiss lakes (silvaplana etc.).

Sandman1221
2068 posts
27 Jun 2022 10:44PM
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Sandman1221 said..


Foulweatherjack said..
Thanks for the replies. In no particular order, my pumping skills are marginal but slowly improving. The FoilX 145 does have a deep Tuttle box. I'm not sure about the screws to the fuselage.

I do notice that the Phantasm 928 is a very low aspect foil with a large chord. Would a higher aspect ratio foil actually provide more lift at low speeds?




A higher aspect wing will have less drag and so with proper pumping will get up easier and fly faster than a lower aspect wing, but based on the definition of aspect it provides less lift, I think!



And that is why people on HA wings use larger sails, with less lift need more sail to get up and stay up, but go faster once up.

I know this is not what you were looking for, but my AFS F1080 cm2 wing is very good for light wind 8-9 knots (measured on the shore with no tree line that can back up/reduce the wind), a gust of 8-9 knots makes a light ripple on the water with no white caps. I am 84 kg, use a Goya Bolt 135 board (80 cm wide, narrower boards help in light wind), and an Aerotech Freespeed 7.2 sail (non cambered). Now I am fairly experienced in light wind, used to use a 9.0, then 8.0 Freespeed in the same wind with same board and foil.

Foulweatherjack
29 posts
28 Jun 2022 2:08AM
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I appreciate all of the responses. The consensus seems to be that the Phantasm 928 might have a higher top end than the i99 but otherwise be more of the same.

If I were to pursue the high aspect ratio foils for super light air, what models/brands should I be looking at?

CoreAS
706 posts
28 Jun 2022 3:49AM
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The phantasm 928 LA front wing like others have said is a refined version on i99.

However it's not just the front wing shape, the mast stiffness is a major benefit and wind foilers often over look how important that is. The phantasm is around 4.5 lbs lighter and easier to walk into tricky water conditions with board and rig
overall the phantasm feels solid under foot, turns are smoother and more predictable. The mast to fuse build and fit is one of the best on the market.

You maybe ready for the Phantasm ptm926?? I done a full review video.

Grantmac
1485 posts
28 Jun 2022 4:42AM
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Foulweatherjack said..
I appreciate all of the responses. The consensus seems to be that the Phantasm 928 might have a higher top end than the i99 but otherwise be more of the same.

If I were to pursue the high aspect ratio foils for super light air, what models/brands should I be looking at?



Are you a straight line blaster, upwind/downwind rider or into carving?

thedoor
1650 posts
28 Jun 2022 5:46AM
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Select to expand quote
Foulweatherjack said..
I appreciate all of the responses. The consensus seems to be that the Phantasm 928 might have a higher top end than the i99 but otherwise be more of the same.

If I were to pursue the high aspect ratio foils for super light air, what models/brands should I be looking at?



Step one: make sure the brand offers at least a 850 or more mm fuse. Rules out Armstrong.

Step two: make sure they offer a wide range of front wings. As what you want will change overtime

Step three: good build strength

Step four: good cross component compatibility

There is no brand that fits all four but sabfoil and axis come to mind. others can chime

Sandman1221
2068 posts
28 Jun 2022 6:26AM
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AFS still makes a 85 cm T-bar mast with F1080 and F770 wings (good for 8-24 knots), but that is all for wings for the 85 cm foil last I checked. But the new AFS foils (95/105 masts) have high aspect wings, with 3-4 wings available, still all carbon super stiff, and built to last. Can order direct, just remember VAT is included in the price shown, but comes off once you enter a non-EU address (VAT is ~300-400 euros for a complete foil).

WsurfAustin
256 posts
28 Jun 2022 7:06AM
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CoreAS said..


However it's not just the front wing shape, the mast stiffness is a major benefit and wind foilers often over look how important that is.

This...
I ran the phantasm lower(PFI730) with both 90cm aluminum and w103 carbon. Huge difference in stability and control with the carbon mast. And I'm only 135lbs.

Foulweatherjack
29 posts
28 Jun 2022 8:48AM
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Grantmac said..

Foulweatherjack said..
I appreciate all of the responses. The consensus seems to be that the Phantasm 928 might have a higher top end than the i99 but otherwise be more of the same.

If I were to pursue the high aspect ratio foils for super light air, what models/brands should I be looking at?




Are you a straight line blaster, upwind/downwind rider or into carving?


Grantmac: I'm pretty much a straight line blaster. Haven't yet learned to jibe on the foil (but there's always hope). I must say that I'm appreciative of the generous expertise shared on this forum. I have learned a tremendous amount reading these posts on days when I'm landlocked in my office, dreaming of the water.

And speaking of mast stiffness, it seems intuitive to me that a shorter mast would be stiffer than a longer mast. That said, what's the optimal mast length? Are there any rules of thumb?

Sandman1221
2068 posts
28 Jun 2022 9:23AM
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Foulweatherjack said..

Grantmac said..


Foulweatherjack said..
I appreciate all of the responses. The consensus seems to be that the Phantasm 928 might have a higher top end than the i99 but otherwise be more of the same.

If I were to pursue the high aspect ratio foils for super light air, what models/brands should I be looking at?





Are you a straight line blaster, upwind/downwind rider or into carving?



Grantmac: I'm pretty much a straight line blaster. Haven't yet learned to jibe on the foil (but there's always hope). I must say that I'm appreciative of the generous expertise shared on this forum. I have learned a tremendous amount reading these posts on days when I'm landlocked in my office, dreaming of the water.

And speaking of mast stiffness, it seems intuitive to me that a shorter mast would be stiffer than a longer mast. That said, what's the optimal mast length? Are there any rules of thumb?


Shorter not necessarily stiffer, especially when comparing a shorter aluminum to longer carbon mast. 95 cm is the sweet spot for most applications. There is a website that tests mast stiffness, was in one of the topics posted here, AFS had two mast in the the top 4 stiffest.

thedoor
1650 posts
28 Jun 2022 9:27AM
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There isnt really a optimal length but 85cm seems to be minimum. I like 90-100

KDog
202 posts
28 Jun 2022 10:35AM
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I would call Northbeach in Tampa and see what they would recommend for that board .

Sandman1221
2068 posts
28 Jun 2022 9:51PM
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KDog said..
I would call Northbeach in Tampa and see what they would recommend for that board .



They will try to sell him whatever they have in stock!

See if you can demo before you buy!

KDog
202 posts
28 Jun 2022 10:18PM
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Sandman1221 said..

KDog said..
I would call Northbeach in Tampa and see what they would recommend for that board .




They will try to sell him whatever they have in stock!

See if you can demo before you buy!


Phone calls are free the OP might be able to gain more info on foils to chose from.

Sandman1221
2068 posts
28 Jun 2022 10:48PM
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KDog said..

Sandman1221 said..


KDog said..
I would call Northbeach in Tampa and see what they would recommend for that board .





They will try to sell him whatever they have in stock!

See if you can demo before you buy!



Phone calls are free the OP might be able to gain more info on foils to chose from.


Just giving them a heads up based on my personal experience.



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"Phantasm PFI 928 vs i99 for light air" started by Foulweatherjack