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Kitesurf Jump height measurements......... on your smartwatch?

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Created by dachopper > 9 months ago, 1 May 2022
dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
28 Oct 2023 3:49PM
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Ignore my last.... Version 4.6 now released, Hangtime improved





morewindpls
WA, 3 posts
5 Dec 2023 8:39PM
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Hey mate,Absolutely love the idea of the app for the watch, I think it's amazing and much better than the other products that exist on the market today.I've been trying to use it for the last 3/4 sessions I've had and feel like there are a few things that could be improved:- I have a watch that has touch screen and I think drops of water stop the detecting and make me go onto the 'overall' menu, and it's then really hard to go back to the detecting phase (the back button asks if I want to save and exit, and the start button doesn't do anything). Is it possible to disable the touch screen by default when the app is on?
- I would say about 1/5th of my jumps are currently being detected, today I was probably jumping 5-12m. Unsure what the problem is, do you think I should uninstall/reinstall or try an older version and see if it's one of the newer releases causing issues?
- What happens if you throw a loop at the apex of the jump? Will that make the app think it's an extra gust and count it towards extra height?I also feel like perhaps some of the really soft landings after well timed helies might make it hard for you to detect when a landing actually takes place

Anywho happy to keep on giving my anecdotal feedback here or somewhere else if that helps you, thanks heaps for the work on this app.

dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
5 Dec 2023 10:57PM
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morewindpls said..
Hey mate,Absolutely love the idea of the app for the watch, I think it's amazing and much better than the other products that exist on the market today.I've been trying to use it for the last 3/4 sessions I've had and feel like there are a few things that could be improved:- I have a watch that has touch screen and I think drops of water stop the detecting and make me go onto the 'overall' menu, and it's then really hard to go back to the detecting phase (the back button asks if I want to save and exit, and the start button doesn't do anything). Is it possible to disable the touch screen by default when the app is on?
- I would say about 1/5th of my jumps are currently being detected, today I was probably jumping 5-12m. Unsure what the problem is, do you think I should uninstall/reinstall or try an older version and see if it's one of the newer releases causing issues?
- What happens if you throw a loop at the apex of the jump? Will that make the app think it's an extra gust and count it towards extra height?I also feel like perhaps some of the really soft landings after well timed helies might make it hard for you to detect when a landing actually takes place

Anywho happy to keep on giving my anecdotal feedback here or somewhere else if that helps you, thanks heaps for the work on this app.


Hi...

Yeah, lookup your watch type instruction manual, and in the settings disable touch screen for activity by default, or you can push the shortcut bottons for your watch that will disable the touch screen ( depending on which watch you have ).

You can also try mounting the watch somewhere other than your wrist ( like on the spreader bar in view of GPS ) - that will give the best detection although mount it wherever at your own risk.
start looping on the way up prior to the apex...... I think will not make much of a difference **** although I've not tested this extensively that is coming from my knowledge of the algorythem and the AI part of the code.

Even if there was some difference..... not much I could do, and how to be sure the other devices are any more accurate?

My testing of small jumps ( < 2m ) indicated they were not very accurate at all.

ac17
NSW, 51 posts
10 Dec 2023 5:06PM
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Hi All - I came here looking for kitesurf-specific advice about buying a cheap watch to measure heart rate & respiration, and jump height, Speed, Map my rides with the GPS.

I now want to try this app!

Can anyone vouch for the Garmin "Vivo Active 4" or the "Venu Sq 2" ?

Do watches measure respiration & HR accurately in the water or is a chest strap better?

-would I be able to do all of these things at the same time WHILE using the Kite Jump Pro (app)?

-how well does this app compare to (say) a Woo device?

Thanks in advance

zlatko
38 posts
11 Dec 2023 3:44PM
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@ac17 - I can not recommend watch, from pure esthetics I like better round watches, so Vivoactive 4 for me. What is concerning Kite Jump operation - the more memory, the better. @dachopper can give you more info.
On your questions:
- no need for chest strap, but you have to make sure your watch has contact with skin and not wear it over wetsuit sleeve. Strap will be more accurate though as usual.
- yes, as with any activity.
- as far as I can tell the results are pretty much as accurate as Woo. You can just check few posts up the graphics.

Froth Goth
314 posts
13 Dec 2023 9:55AM
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Instinct 2 surf works perfectly fine no stupid touch screen and bugger all battery usage ive nearly died i think 6 times in last 2 years ive had this watch while it has been logging without a hiccup

dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
13 Dec 2023 6:59PM
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zlatko said..
@ac17 - I can not recommend watch, from pure esthetics I like better round watches, so Vivoactive 4 for me. What is concerning Kite Jump operation - the more memory, the better. @dachopper can give you more info.
On your questions:
- no need for chest strap, but you have to make sure your watch has contact with skin and not wear it over wetsuit sleeve. Strap will be more accurate though as usual.
- yes, as with any activity.
- as far as I can tell the results are pretty much as accurate as Woo. You can just check few posts up the graphics.


@ac17,

The bigger the watch face is, the easier it is to read the information,
Bigger is better

The more buttons the watch has with water sports apps, the easier the app is to navigate on the water as touch screen needs to be disabled to avoid the water activating buttons.

The smaller watches are gimmics on the water as they are harder to read, and most have not enough buttons requiring touch screen..

Instinct I would steer clear of, it is the cheapest as it has the lowest amount of memory.

So - I would recommend any fenix 7.... but bigger screen is better

dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
17 Dec 2023 9:06AM
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Good session the other day !

dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
17 Dec 2023 5:22PM
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Another session today, 30 jumps all detected and recorded.. Looked good
Screen grabs from Garmin Connect Mobile post session.


dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
21 Jan 2024 9:50PM
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Just tipped over 4,000 user downloads,

Re-named Kitejump Pro

apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/ca00d0a1-542c-40eb-9ba5-869c8308d865

Sally234
4 posts
27 Jan 2024 10:59PM
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The Surfr. App works amazing. Just that you need to buy the pro version off the app to use it on a smartwatch

dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
28 Jan 2024 4:01PM
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Sally234 said..
The Surfr. App works amazing. Just that you need to buy the pro version off the app to use it on a smartwatch


How much is the pro version ?

brinm
75 posts
31 Jan 2024 6:12AM
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Cost me $69.99NZD after currency conversion for 12 months

Froth Goth
314 posts
31 Jan 2024 10:27AM
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God damn it now its $10 oh well it was fun while it lasted. Waaaay out of my price range as a homeless unemployed kite instructor who somehow doesnt have any investment propertys.

Ill have to go back to the garmin kitesurf app and not get any jump height data

dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
31 Jan 2024 11:42AM
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Froth Goth said..
God damn it now its $10 oh well it was fun while it lasted. Waaaay out of my price range as a homeless unemployed kite instructor who somehow doesnt have any investment propertys.

Ill have to go back to the garmin kitesurf app and not get any jump height data


Hahahha.

I would love $60 a year from all my purchasers......

Still working on the web interface..... :)

Got something amazing in the works but going to take a while

Froth Goth
314 posts
31 Jan 2024 3:29PM
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Dont get too excited

I did a jump today must of been highest i have ever jumped.
One of those oh **** that was higher and faster then expected and then another lofting equally high must of been 18 or 20 meters it felt significantly higher then i have before. Anyways

Very excited to see what the watch would read and it had this huge IQ with a little x in it and i dont know if it recorded it or not but it recorded something like 5 meters but as a huge block of time instead of a little sharp up down tetris block 31:52 to 33:16 it sure felt like a solid minute of airtime to me and i have probably 500 hours or so of airtime so yeah i think thats thr jump that crashed it. 30 odd knots today 10m kite blah blah etc etc maybe the problem got patched and i gotto not keep useing the beta for free ?

dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
31 Jan 2024 10:33PM
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Interesting.....

All I can say is the watch is not a laser pointer and is not designed to measure paragliding. If you have good technique and skill then my testing and others comments show it gives meaningful results. I can guarantee that mid jump lofts, or 1 minute long hangtimes will not calculate correctly on my app, and I would speculate on any device. It's not an aircraft barometer.

If you're using the Beta, I have no comment as there have been updates since then, but my above statement regarding mid jump wind phenomenom, such as micro bursts, dust devils, updrafts, boat towing, jumping off objects would apply in all scanario's.

Better off paying the $60 a year to see if that works :) or spending more on one of the other devices to see what they say, I would be very surprised if you got something meaningful.

My session of 30 jumps was pretty much there. All registered and heights in the ballpark.


If you want more accuracy - put your watch somewhere else ( shoulder in phone holder, or attach it to the harness somewhere ), you will get the highest accuracy possible.



Froth Goth
314 posts
1 Feb 2024 4:10AM
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Went old school checked the surf camera surfline rewind* not entirely sure if it was the right jump but it was only 13 seconds hahaha and the additional lofting was like 1st phase regular big jump maybe 10meters then lofted for maybe 3 seconds for another 2 meters up ? ( hard to tell with camera) then another lofting for another few seconds and another couple meters then it like just kinda hangs neutral ahwhile and decends

And yeah clocked in on the watch as a minute long 5m jump...

10m kite 33 knots on the nearby holfuy. not a paraglider.



Anyways any idea what the IQx sign on the watch being displayed was about? Maybe the calculations were too much for the garmin instinct 2 ? Ive logged every canopy sport most diveing even on air and most water sports and all your running swiming etc etc never seen the iQx logo pop up before

dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
2 Feb 2024 3:16PM
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Froth Goth said..
Went old school checked the surf camera surfline rewind* not entirely sure if it was the right jump but it was only 13 seconds hahaha and the additional lofting was like 1st phase regular big jump maybe 10meters then lofted for maybe 3 seconds for another 2 meters up ? ( hard to tell with camera) then another lofting for another few seconds and another couple meters then it like just kinda hangs neutral ahwhile and decends

And yeah clocked in on the watch as a minute long 5m jump...

10m kite 33 knots on the nearby holfuy. not a paraglider.



Anyways any idea what the IQx sign on the watch being displayed was about? Maybe the calculations were too much for the garmin instinct 2 ? Ive logged every canopy sport most diveing even on air and most water sports and all your running swiming etc etc never seen the iQx logo pop up before


I work out the bugs with each revision of the software.

There is a maximum hangtime timelimit which is a result of the memory available on some watch models, which can never exceed 12 seconds, but in reality because the error correction is designed to remove jumps which have phenomenon in them, then the hangtime limit is probably closer to 7 to 8 seconds, so 13 seconds should have been discarded. You had the error because for some reason it was not.

I watched a lot of footage of 20 to 30 meter jumps, and they all are generally are around the 5 - 7second mark.

All I can say is....update it to the latest version, and then if you still have issues I can look into it.
The Beta program was mainly for development.

zlatko
38 posts
19 Feb 2024 7:45PM
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Interesting comparison between Woo and Surfr:


I asked the creators to include KiteJump to the mix and see how it will fare against much more resource backed competition. I am pretty confident KiteJump will hold it's own!

NorthernKitesAUS
QLD, 1059 posts
20 Feb 2024 3:15PM
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Ok. Now we need someone to sponsor DaChopper to do the same level of testing using Woo, Surfr and KiteBeta to really see who's e-KOA. I bet KiteBeta will beat Woo at least. Great app. I love that it just saves your ride in Strava as a Kitesurf event and not a swimming event that I have to edit later. Well done DaChopper

zlatko
38 posts
20 Feb 2024 6:25PM
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From what I see Woo is the least accurate, which is strange for a dedicated HW. I think that future is in watch apps as they are the simplest and universally useful for widest variety of use cases, disciplines and riders. DaChopper is doing an amazing job! KiteJump detects nearly 100% of my jumps, just the height feels a bit too much for my abilities :)

Froth Goth
314 posts
21 Feb 2024 6:21AM
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Most the athletes i know involved in various redbull races etc are saying the watches arent the best for training accuraces and they tend to have a watch and chest strap heartrate monitor combo going aswell

So maybe the app can be used on a chest strap heart monitor i know garmin makes a few

Not sure if hardware wise that would be any good but if you had 2 monitors and then balanced it out surely thats a little more accurate / less hand movement chest is pretty stable etc

dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
21 Feb 2024 7:34AM
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Teaser time :) ?


SaveTheWhales
WA, 1865 posts
Wednesday , 28 Feb 2024 5:40AM
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What Surfr does not do is maintain accuracy between the watch, wearing phone and board mount. I have tested all 3 at the same time and theres a huge difference.
Also my Galaxy 4 on surfr pro is giving me bum readings in 35 knots - my biggest jump of the day only read 7.6 meters, my chop hop over whitewash 6.8m so Porky pies no matter what device...
Best and most reliable thing their all good at is taking your money

SaveTheWhales
WA, 1865 posts
Wednesday , 28 Feb 2024 7:06AM
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Froth Goth said..
Most the athletes i know involved in various redbull races etc are saying the watches arent the best for training accuraces and they tend to have a watch and chest strap heartrate monitor combo going aswell

So maybe the app can be used on a chest strap heart monitor i know garmin makes a few

Not sure if hardware wise that would be any good but if you had 2 monitors and then balanced it out surely thats a little more accurate / less hand movement chest is pretty stable etc


Sounds logical as our hands are all over the joint.
Could simply put a second watch in a neoprene pouch with a sewn elastic band & Velcro as a chest strap. always plenty of cheap 2nd hand watches for sale...

Froth Goth
314 posts
Wednesday , 28 Feb 2024 7:12AM
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It always takes ahwhilw for us to figure things out

Maybe the new smart rings around our toes inside a wakeboot/neoprene booty is the solution?!?

Im gonna wet myself if i see a bunch of you boomers with smart toerings and maybe a smart anklet device (works for criminals all these years right right?)

dachopper
WA, 1783 posts
Thursday , 28 Feb 2024 11:47PM
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SaveTheWhales said..
What Surfr does not do is maintain accuracy between the watch, wearing phone and board mount. I have tested all 3 at the same time and theres a huge difference.
Also my Galaxy 4 on surfr pro is giving me bum readings in 35 knots - my biggest jump of the day only read 7.6 meters, my chop hop over whitewash 6.8m so Porky pies no matter what device...
Best and most reliable thing their all good at is taking your money


With my knowledge, I could have predicted exactly that occuring. Infact I would be absolutely gobsmacked, if you had the same devices ( two identical watches ) both with the same app ( surfr or kitejump pro ) but mounted in different positions ( one on the board, one on your wrist, or 1 wrist, 1 pocket )...... It is actually unbelievable that they could possibly get the same answer, unless they were using hangtime as the only predictor of jump height ( which they are not ).

I can say with conviction though, the most accurate position to mount your watch for my app, is on the harness spreader bar - provided it is not going to get knocked by anything. It cleans up the signal and removes all of the errors created by wrist / arm / shoulder movements.

I dare say ( without any substantiation or testing results ), that statement could be true for the other apps also.



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"Kitesurf Jump height measurements......... on your smartwatch?" started by dachopper