Forums > Windsurfing General

The new Windsurfer LT Reviewed in detail

Reply
Created by albymongrel > 9 months ago, 9 Apr 2018
cammd
QLD, 3467 posts
23 Oct 2019 11:17PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Chris 249 said..
Matt, there are significant numbers of kids sailing LTs, like the current runner-up in the World Youth titles, and the top Australians from the last two T293 nationals. I'm not attacking the T293, but there's no real evidence that youth prefer it.


I think the average age of sailors in both classes would constitute real evidence regarding what demographic preferred what class.

windsufering
VIC, 1124 posts
24 Oct 2019 5:12AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cammd said..


Chris 249 said..
Matt, there are significant numbers of kids sailing LTs, like the current runner-up in the World Youth titles, and the top Australians from the last two T293 nationals. I'm not attacking the T293, but there's no real evidence that youth prefer it.




I think the average age of sailors in both classes would constitute real evidence regarding what demographic preferred what class.



Hasn't the youth Age been lifted for the bic techno in Aust ?

windsufering
VIC, 1124 posts
24 Oct 2019 6:09AM
Thumbs Up




windsufering
VIC, 1124 posts
24 Oct 2019 6:58AM
Thumbs Up

Since the Lt come on the market, the amount of boards sold in Australia equals sales of One a day !
there has also been huge enquires from parents about second hand Lt,s for their kids , unfortunately there are no
second hand boards available to meet the demand !

cammd
QLD, 3467 posts
24 Oct 2019 8:40AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
windsufering said..

cammd said..



Chris 249 said..
Matt, there are significant numbers of kids sailing LTs, like the current runner-up in the World Youth titles, and the top Australians from the last two T293 nationals. I'm not attacking the T293, but there's no real evidence that youth prefer it.





I think the average age of sailors in both classes would constitute real evidence regarding what demographic preferred what class.




Hasn't the youth Age been lifted for the bic techno in Aust ?


I am not sure, it has always been a bit of a problem here whereby youth sailors would qualify on a techno to be selected to the AS youth team but then had to sail on an RSX at the youth worlds. The RSX is a step up from the techno and in some intsances the kids only had a matter of months to try and figure out how to sail a RSX against a very competitive international RSX youth fleet.

On top of that their parents had to find and fund a RSX kit on top of the cost of the camps and regatta's that are compulsory for a youth team member to attend, again often all within 6 months of being selected. Not surprising that windsurfing in the youth class has always been a struggle, it's all good to say kids prefer slower classes and less complicated boards etc. I don't think the problem in growing youth windsurfing is related to the gear be it techno or rsx or wally or even a foil if they come in. The problem with growing competitive fleets lies with AS, no other youth class has to qualify on one set of kit then find, fund and learn to sail another in 6 months, on top of that support for them has been all but removed, they let the national coach go just as a solid base is starting to form.

I think AS voted for a gear change to foils, I wonder what there plan is for youth sailors, qualify on a techno then find, fund and learn to sail a foil in 6 months with no specific foil coaching if selected. That seems like it will be even harder for a youth sailor given the speed of a foil. At least on slower classes you can still be on the same lap as the leaders.

What we have is a self fulfilling profecy, don't support the class, make it super hard to compete internationally, watch them fail and drop out then don't provide support because its not popular. Treat lasers sailors the same and I expect that class would dimish as well. Imagine making a laser sailor qualify on an opti in order to be selected for the youth worlds, there would be a mass revolution. Windsurfing is getting a ** deal, it needs to be changed.

Chris 249
NSW, 3215 posts
24 Oct 2019 10:02AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cammd said..


Chris 249 said..
Matt, there are significant numbers of kids sailing LTs, like the current runner-up in the World Youth titles, and the top Australians from the last two T293 nationals. I'm not attacking the T293, but there's no real evidence that youth prefer it.




I think the average age of sailors in both classes would constitute real evidence regarding what demographic preferred what class.


I didn't say the kids prefer LTs - as far as I can see some of them prefer LTs, some prefer T293, some RB, some FW, etc. But what we do know is that sailing kids in general do not tend to sail the faster, more complicated classes in preference to simple ones.

The average age is not really evidence about what kids prefern, because the average age is affected by the number of older sailors as well as the class' appeal to younger sailors. As an example, take three imaginary classes;

Class A attracts 200 15 year olds and 200 45 year olds. It has an average age of 30.
Class B attracts 50 15 year olds and no one else. It has an average age of 15.
Class C attracts 20,000 15 year olds and 20,000 45 year olds. It has an average age of 30.

Class C attracts far more kids but has the equal highest average age. Class B attracts far fewer kids but has the lowest average age.

The Laser Radial is a bit like "Class C" - it gets lots of oldies so the average age is quite high, but it is also the world's second most popular class for kids and therefore obviously attracts them.

When the Windsurfer Junior One was being promoted, it had a younger average age than the T293, so if you are correct then it was the preferred class for young sailors. It fell away due to the people who ran it dropping away, partly after getting tired from those sitting on the sidelines showing ****.

Please note that I did NOT make any comment that was in any way against the T293 or any other class until I had to defend the LT. I don't think the two classes should be rivals - they should both be trying to build up the sport. Every board has different strengths and each board can complement the others if some of them would work together to rebuild the sport instead of slinging ****.

cammd
QLD, 3467 posts
24 Oct 2019 9:35AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Chris 249 said..


cammd said..




Chris 249 said..
Matt, there are significant numbers of kids sailing LTs, like the current runner-up in the World Youth titles, and the top Australians from the last two T293 nationals. I'm not attacking the T293, but there's no real evidence that youth prefer it.






I think the average age of sailors in both classes would constitute real evidence regarding what demographic preferred what class.




I didn't say the kids prefer LTs - as far as I can see some of them prefer LTs, some prefer T293, some RB, some FW, etc. But what we do know is that sailing kids in general do not tend to sail the faster, more complicated classes in preference to simple ones.

The average age is not really evidence about what kids prefern, because the average age is affected by the number of older sailors as well as the class' appeal to younger sailors. As an example, take three imaginary classes;

Class A attracts 200 15 year olds and 200 45 year olds. It has an average age of 30.
Class B attracts 50 15 year olds and no one else. It has an average age of 15.
Class C attracts 20,000 15 year olds and 20,000 45 year olds. It has an average age of 30.

Class C attracts far more kids but has the equal highest average age. Class B attracts far fewer kids but has the lowest average age.

The Laser Radial is a bit like "Class C" - it gets lots of oldies so the average age is quite high, but it is also the world's second most popular class for kids and therefore obviously attracts them.

When the Windsurfer Junior One was being promoted, it had a younger average age than the T293, so if you are correct then it was the preferred class for young sailors. It fell away due to the people who ran it dropping away, partly after getting tired from those sitting on the sidelines showing ****.

Please note that I did NOT make any comment that was in any way against the T293 or any other class until I had to defend the LT. I don't think the two classes should be rivals - they should both be trying to build up the sport. Every board has different strengths and each board can complement the others if some of them would work together to rebuild the sport instead of slinging ****.



I don't know what constitues evidence then, in some post's you seem to cite the numbers of kids in slower classes as evidence that they prefer to sail less complicated slower classes, you even make that point again in the first sentence of your reply. Why doesn't the same principle apply to T293 as evidence of preference for that class.

AUS 814
NSW, 452 posts
24 Oct 2019 10:58AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cammd said..

windsufering said..


cammd said..




Chris 249 said..
Matt, there are significant numbers of kids sailing LTs, like the current runner-up in the World Youth titles, and the top Australians from the last two T293 nationals. I'm not attacking the T293, but there's no real evidence that youth prefer it.






I think the average age of sailors in both classes would constitute real evidence regarding what demographic preferred what class.





Hasn't the youth Age been lifted for the bic techno in Aust ?



I am not sure, it has always been a bit of a problem here whereby youth sailors would qualify on a techno to be selected to the AS youth team but then had to sail on an RSX at the youth worlds. The RSX is a step up from the techno and in some intsances the kids only had a matter of months to try and figure out how to sail a RSX against a very competitive international RSX youth fleet.

On top of that their parents had to find and fund a RSX kit on top of the cost of the camps and regatta's that are compulsory for a youth team member to attend, again often all within 6 months of being selected. Not surprising that windsurfing in the youth class has always been a struggle, it's all good to say kids prefer slower classes and less complicated boards etc. I don't think the problem in growing youth windsurfing is related to the gear be it techno or rsx or wally or even a foil if they come in. The problem with growing competitive fleets lies with AS, no other youth class has to qualify on one set of kit then find, fund and learn to sail another in 6 months, on top of that support for them has been all but removed, they let the national coach go just as a solid base is starting to form.

I think AS voted for a gear change to foils, I wonder what there plan is for youth sailors, qualify on a techno then find, fund and learn to sail a foil in 6 months with no specific foil coaching if selected. That seems like it will be even harder for a youth sailor given the speed of a foil. At least on slower classes you can still be on the same lap as the leaders.

What we have is a self fulfilling profecy, don't support the class, make it super hard to compete internationally, watch them fail and drop out then don't provide support because its not popular. Treat lasers sailors the same and I expect that class would dimish as well. Imagine making a laser sailor qualify on an opti in order to be selected for the youth worlds, there would be a mass revolution. Windsurfing is getting a ** deal, it needs to be changed.


Re the coaching aspect for foiling no doubt it would be helpful but I feel that any of the current Techno sailors would pick it up pretty quickly. Coupled with it essentially being a one design format should limit the learning curve.

windsufering
VIC, 1124 posts
24 Oct 2019 11:06AM
Thumbs Up

You guys just think the Lt kids only sail LT's LOL

cammd
QLD, 3467 posts
24 Oct 2019 10:30AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
AUS 814 said..



cammd said..




windsufering said..





cammd said..







Chris 249 said..
Matt, there are significant numbers of kids sailing LTs, like the current runner-up in the World Youth titles, and the top Australians from the last two T293 nationals. I'm not attacking the T293, but there's no real evidence that youth prefer it.









I think the average age of sailors in both classes would constitute real evidence regarding what demographic preferred what class.








Hasn't the youth Age been lifted for the bic techno in Aust ?






I am not sure, it has always been a bit of a problem here whereby youth sailors would qualify on a techno to be selected to the AS youth team but then had to sail on an RSX at the youth worlds. The RSX is a step up from the techno and in some intsances the kids only had a matter of months to try and figure out how to sail a RSX against a very competitive international RSX youth fleet.

On top of that their parents had to find and fund a RSX kit on top of the cost of the camps and regatta's that are compulsory for a youth team member to attend, again often all within 6 months of being selected. Not surprising that windsurfing in the youth class has always been a struggle, it's all good to say kids prefer slower classes and less complicated boards etc. I don't think the problem in growing youth windsurfing is related to the gear be it techno or rsx or wally or even a foil if they come in. The problem with growing competitive fleets lies with AS, no other youth class has to qualify on one set of kit then find, fund and learn to sail another in 6 months, on top of that support for them has been all but removed, they let the national coach go just as a solid base is starting to form.

I think AS voted for a gear change to foils, I wonder what there plan is for youth sailors, qualify on a techno then find, fund and learn to sail a foil in 6 months with no specific foil coaching if selected. That seems like it will be even harder for a youth sailor given the speed of a foil. At least on slower classes you can still be on the same lap as the leaders.

What we have is a self fulfilling profecy, don't support the class, make it super hard to compete internationally, watch them fail and drop out then don't provide support because its not popular. Treat lasers sailors the same and I expect that class would dimish as well. Imagine making a laser sailor qualify on an opti in order to be selected for the youth worlds, there would be a mass revolution. Windsurfing is getting a ** deal, it needs to be changed.





Re the coaching aspect for foiling no doubt it would be helpful but I feel that any of the current Techno sailors would pick it up pretty quickly. Coupled with it essentially being a one design format should limit the learning curve.




Its not whether they can pick it up or not, a kid in another class can easily jump from one boat to another and sail it. Thats very different to jumping into a world class fleet and doing well in a regatta. I remember speaking to Justin Lord a few years ago and his advice re formula at the time was you need to sail a board for a season before taking it to a Nationals, you need the time to get to know the board and how to get the most from it. How then could a kid be expected to qualify on a techno and then compete on a foil at top level within 6 months. That expectation is unrealistic.

Windsurfering, I know LT kids sail other classes, I was absolutley not having a dig at LT's, I absolutley support them growing a youth fleet and wish the class well in that endeavour and would happily support that where and when I could.

windsufering
VIC, 1124 posts
24 Oct 2019 11:49AM
Thumbs Up

It's pretty easy to kids racing when they see a fleet of 25 + LT's for a club race

cammd
QLD, 3467 posts
24 Oct 2019 11:06AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
windsufering said..
It's pretty easy to kids racing when they see a fleet of 25 + LT's for a club race


How many fleets of 25+ Lt's are there in the country club racing every week, how many youths in those 25+ fleets.

Whats the reality, how easy is it really, it has not been easy for techno or rsx or raceboards, its taken heaps of work and heaps of time just to get a dozen or so kids and its not getting easier and I don't think foiling will be a magic cure either.

AUS 814
NSW, 452 posts
24 Oct 2019 12:31PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
windsufering said..
You guys just think the Lt kids only sail LT's LOL


Did I say that ???. I used the Techno as an example because they already have training and coaching programs well established. I would be very suprised if a youngster was sailing an LT only

RichardG
WA, 3743 posts
24 Oct 2019 9:38AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
AUS 814 said..Did I say that ???. I used the Techno as an example because they already have training and coaching programs well established. I would be very suprised if a youngster was sailing an LT only












windsufering said..
You guys just think the Lt kids only sail LT's LOL














Did I say that ???. I used the Techno as an example because they already have training and coaching programs well established. I would be very suprised if a youngster was sailing an LT only

That really depends on the budget and the financial capability of the youngster's parents. It is fair to assume the parents might be into sailing other craft due to their deeper pockets. From a windsurfing perspective however, the LT will be the cheapest entry point and a family will likely own an LT or less likely a Techno (numbers are lower in Australia relatively) if into racing at club level. Around a course in 3 -15 knots an LT will beat a Techno in my opinion. These factors at play just might make it more likely youngsters would be keen on or will inevitably end up racing LTs.

Chris 249
NSW, 3215 posts
24 Oct 2019 12:54PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cammd said..

windsufering said..


cammd said..




Chris 249 said..
Matt, there are significant numbers of kids sailing LTs, like the current runner-up in the World Youth titles, and the top Australians from the last two T293 nationals. I'm not attacking the T293, but there's no real evidence that youth prefer it.






I think the average age of sailors in both classes would constitute real evidence regarding what demographic preferred what class.





Hasn't the youth Age been lifted for the bic techno in Aust ?



I am not sure, it has always been a bit of a problem here whereby youth sailors would qualify on a techno to be selected to the AS youth team but then had to sail on an RSX at the youth worlds. The RSX is a step up from the techno and in some intsances the kids only had a matter of months to try and figure out how to sail a RSX against a very competitive international RSX youth fleet.

On top of that their parents had to find and fund a RSX kit on top of the cost of the camps and regatta's that are compulsory for a youth team member to attend, again often all within 6 months of being selected. Not surprising that windsurfing in the youth class has always been a struggle, it's all good to say kids prefer slower classes and less complicated boards etc. I don't think the problem in growing youth windsurfing is related to the gear be it techno or rsx or wally or even a foil if they come in. The problem with growing competitive fleets lies with AS, no other youth class has to qualify on one set of kit then find, fund and learn to sail another in 6 months, on top of that support for them has been all but removed, they let the national coach go just as a solid base is starting to form.

I think AS voted for a gear change to foils, I wonder what there plan is for youth sailors, qualify on a techno then find, fund and learn to sail a foil in 6 months with no specific foil coaching if selected. That seems like it will be even harder for a youth sailor given the speed of a foil. At least on slower classes you can still be on the same lap as the leaders.

What we have is a self fulfilling profecy, don't support the class, make it super hard to compete internationally, watch them fail and drop out then don't provide support because its not popular. Treat lasers sailors the same and I expect that class would dimish as well. Imagine making a laser sailor qualify on an opti in order to be selected for the youth worlds, there would be a mass revolution. Windsurfing is getting a ** deal, it needs to be changed.


That's a good good point about the transition to a new Youth worlds class.

I think you're right about the choice of board not being a big problem - even when we had 15 kids at titles in Junior One Design Windsurfers, we admitted that they weren't the ideal board for everyone. We held sessions where we introduced kids to slalom boards, and some of them went to T293. If we had more support (as we had from DAC, Barracouta Sail and WNSW) instead of more knocking, we'd have been able to do more. All I'm saying is that knocking a class does not help the sport, since they all fit different people and different situations.

As noted earlier, I don't think the Laser class is comparable, because the junior dinghy classes are so big and have been big for many years, even where they are not in the AS/Youth/Olympic stream. The Sabot, Minnow, Pelican, Cadet, Cherub and others are all outside the main Opti/420/Radial/29er stream and yet they are still far, far bigger than junior and youth windsurfing. They show that if you take away AS support, the junior dinghy classes still thrive - and so could windsurfing thrive without AS support. As someone who sails all types of craft bar kites, and most types of windsurfers, I think the reason the dinghy sailors get such good numbers and support is because they have worked so bloody hard for so bloody long, and they deserve it.

It's hard to say what AS should do about the Youth Worlds selection. We wouldn't have many kids if the selection trials were on RSX. AS can't force World Sailing to put the Techno into the Youth Worlds (which would probably have been the right thing to do IMHO). Sailors in other disciplines have had to shift classes when they went to the Youth Worlds. The cat sailors used to sail Hobie 16s, get selected on Hobie 16s with spinnaker (I think) and then race SL16s, yet they still got medals. The Youth Worlds two-handed dinghy used to switch from 420 (sailed here in small numbers) to Laser II (which was never much of a class here) almost from year to year, with the 470 used in between! The windsurfers used to get selected on Windsurfer One Designs and then medaled year after year on IMCOs. So we can't really blame AS or say that you can't switch classes and succeed.

I'm NOT criticising the Youths who go - I really respect them and in one case, taught one of them how to windsurf on my own board. It is really hard to get adjusted to the RSX, but we as a sport should take responsibility for the state youth windsurfing is in and not just blame AS. To build a sport these days we need a lot of volunteers working behind the scenes rather than pointing fingers, and windsurfing is not good at that.

cammd
QLD, 3467 posts
24 Oct 2019 12:19PM
Thumbs Up

Good points Chris and I don't disagree with any of them. We as a sport do need to take responsibility and put in the hardwork, AS as the governing body and source of funding needs to support those efforts and the AWA as the body representing windsurfer's need to actively loby and engage with AS to make sure the sailors and volunteers are working within the best possible structure/environment to get the best return on their efforts. Like I said, things need to change - from the top to the bottom,

Chris 249
NSW, 3215 posts
24 Oct 2019 1:19PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cammd said..



Chris 249 said..





cammd said..







Chris 249 said..
Matt, there are significant numbers of kids sailing LTs, like the current runner-up in the World Youth titles, and the top Australians from the last two T293 nationals. I'm not attacking the T293, but there's no real evidence that youth prefer it.









I think the average age of sailors in both classes would constitute real evidence regarding what demographic preferred what class.







I didn't say the kids prefer LTs - as far as I can see some of them prefer LTs, some prefer T293, some RB, some FW, etc. But what we do know is that sailing kids in general do not tend to sail the faster, more complicated classes in preference to simple ones.

The average age is not really evidence about what kids prefern, because the average age is affected by the number of older sailors as well as the class' appeal to younger sailors. As an example, take three imaginary classes;

Class A attracts 200 15 year olds and 200 45 year olds. It has an average age of 30.
Class B attracts 50 15 year olds and no one else. It has an average age of 15.
Class C attracts 20,000 15 year olds and 20,000 45 year olds. It has an average age of 30.

Class C attracts far more kids but has the equal highest average age. Class B attracts far fewer kids but has the lowest average age.

The Laser Radial is a bit like "Class C" - it gets lots of oldies so the average age is quite high, but it is also the world's second most popular class for kids and therefore obviously attracts them.

When the Windsurfer Junior One was being promoted, it had a younger average age than the T293, so if you are correct then it was the preferred class for young sailors. It fell away due to the people who ran it dropping away, partly after getting tired from those sitting on the sidelines showing ****.

Please note that I did NOT make any comment that was in any way against the T293 or any other class until I had to defend the LT. I don't think the two classes should be rivals - they should both be trying to build up the sport. Every board has different strengths and each board can complement the others if some of them would work together to rebuild the sport instead of slinging ****.






I don't know what constitues evidence then, in some post's you seem to cite the numbers of kids in slower classes as evidence that they prefer to sail less complicated slower classes, you even make that point again in the first sentence of your reply. Why doesn't the same principle apply to T293 as evidence of preference for that class.




We're talking numbers versus proportions. The point is that a high number of kids sailing a class can be seen as evidence that they like it, whereas a high proportion of kids sailing that class doesn't necessarily mean the same thing if those numbers are small.

If 15,000 kids and 15,000 adults sailed a certain class (and with Laser Radials the numbers are probably around that range) it would be pretty good evidence that kids liked it, even if the high number of old people meant that the proportion of kids was "only" 50% and the average age was high.

If 4 kids and no adults sailed a class, then the proportion of kids would be 100% but the popularity would be low, and that would seem to indicate kids did not like it.

In the T293's case, in Europe both the numbers and proportion of kids are high and that's great. IMHO we just need the two classes with significant numbers of youth in Australia to work together, or at least not bicker. RQ and PYC, for instance, seem to have different cultures and therefore good reason to take different but equal angles on youth sailing.

We may be able to run a tiny Northern NSW junior regatta at the end of this season; if there were more of those we could grow the sport. Maybe we could get some SEQ kids down as well.

cammd
QLD, 3467 posts
24 Oct 2019 12:46PM
Thumbs Up

Sounds good make it open to seniors as well so we all can sail.

windsufering
VIC, 1124 posts
24 Oct 2019 2:25PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cammd said..

windsufering said..
It's pretty easy to kids racing when they see a fleet of 25 + LT's for a club race



How many fleets of 25+ Lt's are there in the country club racing every week, how many youths in those 25+ fleets.

Whats the reality, how easy is it really, it has not been easy for techno or rsx or raceboards, its taken heaps of work and heaps of time just to get a dozen or so kids and its not getting easier and I don't think foiling will be a magic cure either.


Mc cray yacht club sold their bic techno's to purchased windsurfers to start windsurf programs, since then all their
classes have been full of juniors . How crazy is that !

With the fleet sizes in other states and clubs I don't really care !
Grass root sailing starts at local clubs !

The level of racing on the Lt is the highest of all the windsurfer classes, we have world champions, aust champions etc etc not just in windsurfer classes . It's my belief that the best training you can do is racing

windsufering
VIC, 1124 posts
24 Oct 2019 2:43PM
Thumbs Up

When our bic kids go to events you probably notice ther aren't wearing Vic Clothing .
Also on the race track there are no Vic coaches on Ribs .
Even thou our Bic kids have had the best results out of all the Vic youth classes , they get no funding or coaching from
Vic sailing !

AUS 814
NSW, 452 posts
24 Oct 2019 2:51PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
windsufering said..

cammd said..


windsufering said..
It's pretty easy to kids racing when they see a fleet of 25 + LT's for a club race




How many fleets of 25+ Lt's are there in the country club racing every week, how many youths in those 25+ fleets.

Whats the reality, how easy is it really, it has not been easy for techno or rsx or raceboards, its taken heaps of work and heaps of time just to get a dozen or so kids and its not getting easier and I don't think foiling will be a magic cure either.



Mc cray yacht club sold their bic techno's to purchased windsurfers to start windsurf programs, since then all their
classes have been full of juniors . How crazy is that !

With the fleet sizes in other states and clubs I don't really care !
Grass root sailing starts at local clubs !

The level of racing on the Lt is the highest of all the windsurfer classes, we have world champions, aust champions etc etc not just in windsurfer classes . It's my belief that the best training you can do is racing


That really is crazy , well done Vic

cammd
QLD, 3467 posts
24 Oct 2019 2:06PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
windsufering said..

cammd said..


windsufering said..
It's pretty easy to kids racing when they see a fleet of 25 + LT's for a club race




How many fleets of 25+ Lt's are there in the country club racing every week, how many youths in those 25+ fleets.

Whats the reality, how easy is it really, it has not been easy for techno or rsx or raceboards, its taken heaps of work and heaps of time just to get a dozen or so kids and its not getting easier and I don't think foiling will be a magic cure either.



Mc cray yacht club sold their bic techno's to purchased windsurfers to start windsurf programs, since then all their
classes have been full of juniors . How crazy is that !

With the fleet sizes in other states and clubs I don't really care !
Grass root sailing starts at local clubs !

The level of racing on the Lt is the highest of all the windsurfer classes, we have world champions, aust champions etc etc not just in windsurfer classes . It's my belief that the best training you can do is racing


Its pretty great, well done, we have trouble getting people from the learn to windsurf stage through to club racing, its such a huge step. I would be really intertested to here what process other clubs use to get a beginner through to the level of independance required to race in a range of conditions.

windsufering
VIC, 1124 posts
24 Oct 2019 3:19PM
Thumbs Up

Most the kids that go on to racing can already sail and race dinghies !
for Mc cray yacht club its too early to tell !

RichardG
WA, 3743 posts
24 Oct 2019 10:15PM
Thumbs Up

www.sail-world.com/news/223101/Windsurfing-tips-from-World-Champion-Nick-Bez

World Champion Nick Bez attributes the resurgence of the LT board to its versatility, price, broad appeal and a hint of nostalgia. "The LT board is longer than others, has a wider weight range and can sail in 3 to 30 knots. It's an inexpensive one design class, quick to rig and a great choice for young sailors who are looking for a viable sailing option coming when they come out of Optimists and Lasers. And we are seeing lots of people who sailed these boards in the 80s coming back into the class and joining the younger sailors which is giving them some big fleet experience," said Bez.

windsufering
VIC, 1124 posts
25 Oct 2019 4:58AM
Thumbs Up

Interesting read this is why the windsurfer Lt is the fastest growing class in the world
www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2019/10/23/impact-of-changes-in-the-sport/#.XbDrhZQ6RD1.facebook

Chris 249
NSW, 3215 posts
25 Oct 2019 3:17PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cammd said..

windsufering said..


cammd said..



windsufering said..
It's pretty easy to kids racing when they see a fleet of 25 + LT's for a club race





How many fleets of 25+ Lt's are there in the country club racing every week, how many youths in those 25+ fleets.

Whats the reality, how easy is it really, it has not been easy for techno or rsx or raceboards, its taken heaps of work and heaps of time just to get a dozen or so kids and its not getting easier and I don't think foiling will be a magic cure either.




Mc cray yacht club sold their bic techno's to purchased windsurfers to start windsurf programs, since then all their
classes have been full of juniors . How crazy is that !

With the fleet sizes in other states and clubs I don't really care !
Grass root sailing starts at local clubs !

The level of racing on the Lt is the highest of all the windsurfer classes, we have world champions, aust champions etc etc not just in windsurfer classes . It's my belief that the best training you can do is racing



Its pretty great, well done, we have trouble getting people from the learn to windsurf stage through to club racing, its such a huge step. I would be really intertested to here what process other clubs use to get a beginner through to the level of independance required to race in a range of conditions.


At Dobroyd there have been plenty of people who made the transition; Macquarie Uni windsurfing club also had a fair success rate when it was running, and Laser clubs can also do quite well.

I'd say the keys are (1) being friendly and welcoming - which includes making allowances for the fact that many sailors who make a huge contribution are a bit short on cash and/or expertise; (2) making sure that the beginners don't get left behind. This means having handicap starts; a "Grand Prix" system so the slower sailors can do fewer laps and still finish; and lots of coaching both official and unofficial; (3) concentrating on classes that less expert sailors can sail comparatively quickly; (4) social activities after the race so everyone feels welcome and they have another reason to race. One thing no one does really well in Australian small craft sailing would be (5) to have "destination" cruise/races where people don't just sail a short course, but actually go somewhere. Such events are very popular in other areas and other sports.

RQ may have problems because it can get choppy. At my dinghy club, we 've got problems because it can get very gusty for beginners, so in strong days we are looking at modifying the course so that sailors can just do a few laps of a basically reaching course close to the clubhouse. Those who are struggling can then sail to the finish while the rest do some long laps. The short course sailors are given a finish in order, but behind all who finish the full course which is what we've done in Windsurfers. It seems to work.

There's a terrible tendency to denigrate sailors in windsurfing and other areas of sailing; I've known guys running clubs who referred to beginners as "punters" and not in a very fond way, which was odd considering that guy was pretty unskilled himself. Others have continually implied that certain classes were just for beginners and that people must move to faster classes as they got better, which was funny since the slow classes have so many sailors and Olympians. IMHO that sort of attitude seeps through even if it's subconscious, and turns people off. The people who are new are those who are brave enough to try something they don't know, and in many ways they deserve more respect than the champions.

Gestalt
QLD, 14119 posts
25 Oct 2019 2:40PM
Thumbs Up

love to see a raceboard do this.

AUS 814
NSW, 452 posts
25 Oct 2019 3:53PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Gestalt said..
love to see a raceboard do this.



Totally amazing

DavidJohn
VIC, 17408 posts
25 Oct 2019 7:23PM
Thumbs Up

Great vid.. great board.

Imax1
QLD, 4524 posts
25 Oct 2019 8:34PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Gestalt said..
love to see a raceboard do this.



Looks good , do everything at a relaxed pace .
I enjoy getting my OD riding swell in 5 kts .
I know it's a different animal , but it is fun carving , ( slowly ) , a long board .
There is nothing better than planing , but going downhill , trying to get groovy , on a filening cabinet , can be just as much fun .
Ill happily want one .



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"The new Windsurfer LT Reviewed in detail" started by albymongrel