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Sail bigger than recommended by board manufacturer

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Created by mssp > 9 months ago, 19 Aug 2019
mssp
8 posts
19 Aug 2019 10:45AM
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Hi. I'm thinking about buying a 6.7m2 X:Move NP sail to use with a 96 liters Goya One Freewave.
But the recommended sail range for this board is 4.2 - 6.0 m2.
Would it work fine? If I use a bigger fin, would it be better?
What happens to the dynamics of the board when we use sails bigger than recommended?
Thank you

elmo
WA, 8659 posts
19 Aug 2019 11:11AM
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Generally it's a case of suck it and see,

I regularly use sails well outside of recommended range.

I think the largest sail I've used on a FSW is 7.2m

I think there are to many variables in play to be hard and fast with recommendations

If it works then great, if it doesn't the don't

westozwind
WA, 1374 posts
19 Aug 2019 11:18AM
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Yep, I'm with Elmo. Give it a go, and if it spins out a lot then a bigger fin will help.

Waveinn
WA, 32 posts
19 Aug 2019 11:41AM
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It has enough literage to carry a 6,7 .

34 -36 FREERIDE fin will help ...

mr love
VIC, 2296 posts
19 Aug 2019 4:00PM
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Frankly I am sceptical...it has a tail measurement of 37.8 and I think it will struggle to handle a sail that big...but hey, try it.

Madge
NSW, 469 posts
19 Aug 2019 5:42PM
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Sail sizes by board manufacturers are guide lines.

You might have to flatten the sail off slightly, if its too full it could bury a rail when loading up.

Try it why not if it works you'll get more use out of the board. Might be best to put the foot straps on their outboard most position too.

Roy
VIC, 128 posts
19 Aug 2019 5:56PM
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mr love said..
Frankly I am sceptical...it has a tail measurement of 37.8 and I think it will struggle to handle a sail that big...but hey, try it.


+1

I have a Goya One 104 (older model) and 5.9m is my biggest sail, I can get that going in pretty light winds with a bit of pumping. Have you tried a 5.7 - 5.9m on it yet?

Basher
531 posts
19 Aug 2019 9:40PM
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The board is classified as a freewave and a 6.7 rig will not be a wave sail.

So it's not the volume of the board that's the issue here, but the rocker line.
Try a bigger rig by all means, but this sounds like an overload. Once you get planing it might feel OK or else it might feel like you have a lot of power but can't go very fast. But what will be worse is having a massive rig on a board that's meant to turn.

If you are not getting planing often enough in your local conditions then rather than overloading your wave board, try getting something bigger, like a freestyle board or something with 'slalom' or 'race' in the title.
And if you want to use it with a 6.7 or bigger then it probably needs to be at least 100 litres, and it certainly should have a single fin.

forceten
1312 posts
19 Aug 2019 11:07PM
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Basher said..
The board is classified as a freewave and a 6.7 rig will not be a wave sail.

So it's not the volume of the board that's the issue here, but the rocker line.
Try a bigger rig by all means, but this sounds like an overload. Once you get planing it might feel OK or else it might feel like you have a lot of power but can't go very fast. But what will be worse is having a massive rig on a board that's meant to turn.

If you are not getting planing often enough in your local conditions then rather than overloading your wave board, try getting something bigger, like a freestyle board or something with 'slalom' or 'race' in the title.
And if you want to use it with a 6.7 or bigger then it probably needs to be at least 100 litres, and it certainly should have a single fin.


Agree with all said, except the single fin part, ( another topic).

how large is the current sail ? At some numeric point a larger sail is no longer a valid option, it doesn't do any more in regard to performance, in relation to the board size, which is what Basher said.

In a yes or no answer, mine is no. Irrespective of fin size. Or unless you are very light, but the board platform still is a major influence.

Brienno
28 posts
20 Aug 2019 12:56AM
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forceten said..
"At some numeric point a larger sail is no longer a valid option, it doesn't do any more in regard to performance, in relation to the board size, which is what Basher said".




This is a very interesting subject, for inexperienced sailors. I read hints about it, but never a full explanation. Would you please care to elaborate?
And what do you think would be the sail size of peak performance for a Fanatic Freewave STB 115 (231x65)?

Manuel7
1231 posts
20 Aug 2019 1:11AM
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Big sail on small boards work well when medium to well powered. The reason is at slow speeds they are lower on the water and have more drag. They lose the plane more easily. On the contrary they have better high end as they are more easily controlled when powered up.

One must play with the fin to extend the range. Then it's board specific, some boards do better than others. I was never super comfortable with 7.0 and 105 Goya freeride with either 32 or 38cm fins.

So if you plan to be well powered up it should work especially with a matching fin. If it's on off or a bit light then it'll likely underperform.

boardsurfr
WA, 2202 posts
20 Aug 2019 1:23AM
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mssp said..
Hi. I'm thinking about buying a 6.7m2 X:Move NP sail to use with a 96 liters Goya One Freewave.
But the recommended sail range for this board is 4.2 - 6.0 m2.


Seems like Goya is on the conservative side with the suggested sail sizes, since this is a relatively small range. The smallest FSW board I use is a 96, and that works just fine with a 3.7 or a 6.5. Different board (older 3S 96), but pretty similar characteristics to the Goya one.
So chances are a 6.7 will work ok with your 96, especially with a bigger fin.

Tardy
4920 posts
20 Aug 2019 5:35AM
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I 've found with my boards ,the board manufactures have been spot on with sail recommendations ...

not to say I haven't tried different sails on them

but it is best to get the best performance out of your boards to stay in the range .

sure it will work but the balance will be Out ..

Ben1973
908 posts
20 Aug 2019 8:33AM
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On the Severne website they say the Fox 140 can take 7.5 to 9.5 then in the brochure it doesn't really recommend a 8.6 OD? At least that's what I make of the picture as the red line to the left doesn't go down to the OD




mssp
8 posts
21 Aug 2019 6:30AM
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Thanks for your replies.
I searched for other brands's freewave boards recommended sail range and I found out that some brands suggest sail size range larger than Goya.
JP freestyle wave 94L - ideal:4.7-6.2
rec.:4.5-6.7
Starboard Kode Freewave 95L - 4.5 - 6.5 m2

Maybe Goya is just being more conservative, as @boardsurfr said.


Select to expand quote
boardsurfr said..

mssp said..
Hi. I'm thinking about buying a 6.7m2 X:Move NP sail to use with a 96 liters Goya One Freewave.
But the recommended sail range for this board is 4.2 - 6.0 m2.



Seems like Goya is on the conservative side with the suggested sail sizes, since this is a relatively small range. The smallest FSW board I use is a 96, and that works just fine with a 3.7 or a 6.5. Different board (older 3S 96), but pretty similar characteristics to the Goya one.
So chances are a 6.7 will work ok with your 96, especially with a bigger fin.

Basher
531 posts
21 Aug 2019 7:44AM
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I'd suggest you borrow a bigger rig to try on the board first. If that works, then you'll know it's a good idea.
If it doesn't then you've spent the money already - and will then need a bigger or different style of board to go with that 6.7.

Not sure why the Severne Fox was mentioned, because that's not a freewave board.

515
773 posts
21 Aug 2019 9:45AM
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Some good advice if you can borrow a bigger rig and match with bigger fin.
The X Move is a sail to match the board as opposed to free ride rig.
Sometimes the extra weight of the bigger rig won't get you planning any earlier.

I think that comment with the Fox is more a reference on sail type that a full cam sail is heavier than a size bigger 2 cam sail.
As when I sold my raf slalom 7m and went to 6.6m freestyle sail that got my Starboard Carve 99 planning earlier and higher cut foot so much better for duck gybes.

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
23 Aug 2019 8:26PM
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You can get away with a bigger sail in flatter water, but being a freewave board you'll probably be using it in bumpier conditions. It also depends on how much power the sail generates. A grunty sail is more likely to over power the tail / fin.

As as mentioned in post above, the bigger sail may work OK but give you minimal advantage in terms of planning and trim.

As suggested definitely try before you buy.

boardsurfr
WA, 2202 posts
23 Aug 2019 9:48PM
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Waiting4wind said..
A grunty sail is more likely to over power the tail / fin.


It's quite possible that a larger sail overpowers the stock fin. But the stock fins are rarely, if ever, the maximum size you can put on a board, so a larger fin (as others have suggested) would fix that. IIRC, the suggestion is to keep the fin size to the width of the board one from from the tail or below.

forceten
1312 posts
23 Aug 2019 10:02PM
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Brienno said..


forceten said..
"At some numeric point a larger sail is no longer a valid option, it doesn't do any more in regard to performance, in relation to the board size, which is what Basher said".






This is a very interesting subject, for inexperienced sailors. I read hints about it, but never a full explanation. Would you please care to elaborate?
And what do you think would be the sail size of peak performance for a Fanatic Freewave STB 115 (231x65)?



A proper answer would require more info, ie your weight. Your Fanatic is near my MOO at 117l, a 7.5m is ok so long as I'm moving along, by that not planing but not a awkward slogging speed where holding the rig up is a bother.
A 6.4m is much nicer in those conditions. 70 kg, and proficient . So weight and level will enter, water state and wind force.
Example for me, a Formula board, 155l 7.5m for light wind was fine, even slogging , the board itself would take much larger sails. I bought an entire rig 8.5m , 490mast, the weight difference of sail and mast made it redundant ,offsetting the size increase. I don't recall if I used a GPS to compare speed, I sold the 8.5m rig. The weight was very noticeable when carrying the rig.
this all is subjective, if your a strong person. Which is not me.

so the answer is dynamic , it changes.

Mastbender
1972 posts
24 Aug 2019 3:58AM
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Agree with forceten, the recommendations are based on an average size/weight sailor, if you are lighter or heavier, those reco's are completely different.

mssp
8 posts
25 Aug 2019 9:55PM
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Okay. Thank you all for replying.
I think I was not clear enough, I don't have the Goya 96. So I can't try it. I was just trying to find a fsw board size that I could keep as my only board. It's a lot of pain to carry two boards during small trips. But I guess 96 is just not enough for light winds and too much high winds.
I have a JP fsw 102 and it should handle the x:move 6.7m2 okay.
So if I can't keep a single board quiver, I should get a 83-88 L board instead of the 96 to replace my really old small board from naish.
But again, another question of the same topic: the recommended sail range for Goya's Custom Thruster 86L is 3.7 - 5.5m2, and I wonder if a 5.7m2 sail would match with this board.



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"Sail bigger than recommended by board manufacturer" started by mssp