Forums > Windsurfing Foiling

Different nose protection

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Created by SA_AL 4 months ago, 18 Jan 2022
SA_AL
231 posts
18 Jan 2022 3:37AM
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Yesterday, I watched a very experienced professional race foiler setting up his gear. He slided some sort of soft shell under his sail over the mast but the the shield is completely covered with his sail. This is similar to the protecting shield Ion (picture below) has it but rather than putting over the sail/mast, you slide under your sail so that the shield covers the area of possible hit during catapult. The shield is stuck in between the sail and the mast. I feel that this is much better aerodynamically than putting over the sail. There is no need to put any material on your the nose of the board. I did not ask where he got his shield but it looked like a simple homemade sheet of soft material. I am thinking to get a large sheet of rubber base pad that may work. Anyone recommends what kind of softshell suitable for this?

LeeD
3939 posts
18 Jan 2022 4:21AM
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Those mast protectors...mast base pads, been sold since 1984. Two semi circular plastic clips for retension.

SA_AL
231 posts
18 Jan 2022 4:48AM
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LeeD said..
Those mast protectors...mast base pads, been sold since 1984. Two semi circular plastic clips for retension.


Great. Do you know the name of the company?

TroyMcClure
16 posts
18 Jan 2022 4:53AM
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I've not seen ones that slide under the sail. I once found one of the protectors in your picture, floating along the shore line. I later found out why when I tried to use it - it came straight off! There was no way of securely attaching it to the mast over the sail with it in the right place to protect the nose of the board.

PatK
204 posts
18 Jan 2022 5:34AM
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I made a protector for outside the sail of a foam roll. These are made to isolate heater pipes. Cheap at the home depot. It is fixed to the mast on both sides with flexible line. Works great and protects the sail also.




SA_AL
231 posts
18 Jan 2022 6:49AM
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TroyMcClure said..
I've not seen ones that slide under the sail. I once found one of the protectors in your picture, floating along the shore line. I later found out why when I tried to use it - it came straight off! There was no way of securely attaching it to the mast over the sail with it in the right place to protect the nose of the board.


I was trying to describe that the protector goes inside of the sail where mast slides in, in a way that sail covers completely the protector. When outhaul is applied with the boom, it puts pressure over the protector. In other words, you are making a sandwich that out side is sail, then protector and inside mast. With this set-up, you never loose the protector and also it is more efficient for wind/air flow as opposed to putting the protector outside over the sail.

LeeD
3939 posts
18 Jan 2022 7:11AM
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Pipe foam insulation.

ZeroVix
265 posts
18 Jan 2022 8:14AM
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I use this setup. It isn't the best either.

www.unifiber.net/windsurf-gear/accessories/blackline-boom-board-protector-with-mast-cover-5825d183362e6615c44ec923

Between the mast and sail, there might be an issue with sail performing the best. Nothing is perfect.

Sandman1221
1810 posts
18 Jan 2022 9:43AM
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Mast can punch through it and still damage the board.

Mark _australia
WA, 21342 posts
18 Jan 2022 1:05PM
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^^^ gotta be better than no padding

And its better than padding on the board that you advocate as it can crack under the EVA foam and let water in.
Every beginner / intermediate board I have ever seen with homemade EVA nose "protector" had a ton of major cracks under it.

Catapault is stage we all go thru, learn to not do it eventually and in the mean time some damage that is easily fixed will be sustained

Sticking random EVA on the board devalues it more as a cluey buyer wants to know what's under it...

Mark _australia
WA, 21342 posts
18 Jan 2022 1:06PM
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Lee is onto it, pipe insulation from hardware store (I'd say pool noodle too thick for internal use)

SA_AL
231 posts
18 Jan 2022 3:12PM
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Mark _australia said..
^^^ gotta be better than no padding

And its better than padding on the board that you advocate as it can crack under the EVA foam and let water in.
Every beginner / intermediate board I have ever seen with homemade EVA nose "protector" had a ton of major cracks under it.

Catapault is stage we all go thru, learn to not do it eventually and in the mean time some damage that is easily fixed will be sustained

Sticking random EVA on the board devalues it more as a cluey buyer wants to know what's under it...


Even when you're experienced, you still have a chance to catapult such as you may hit a kelp or big fish, caught in strange wave etc. As I wrote in the original post, this particular racer is an outstanding foiler but still using this protective shield.

t36
69 posts
18 Jan 2022 3:58PM
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could you please make an image of this shield?

after 2 long saisons with my Patrik AI 91 Hybrid without catapults, I catapulted it the last day foiling in november.

Only 7-8 knots, going halfreach as high as possible out of the water for low drag and than I missed a single gust .... ahhh, crashing the mast into the this nose ...

PhilUK
424 posts
18 Jan 2022 4:00PM
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I have started foiling, so was expecting a few crashes.
I have an ION RDM protector. It stays on, but may ride up a bit so you have to keep an eye on it. It has a velcro strap at the top to stop it coming off completely. It is far too thin. I put some slits in it to attach an elastic strap to hold some fitness mat in place.
I emailed ION and suggested a moveable pad on velcro could be added so you could move the extra padding to exactly where it would hit.
The ION was GBP42 an I'm sure I could make something far better myself from scratch.
I also have a Unifiber nose protector on my board, but as there are concaves/convex areas on the nose I couldnt put the protector right on the nose. Together they are working ok.
For a short 210cm foil board, that Unifiber protector pictured above doesnt look long enough.
Would an internal pad affect sail rotation or cams? The mast sleeve is fairly tight against the front of the mast.
A mastpad isnt very aerodynamic. I think the best solution is to make a fibreglass protector for the nose, with padding underneath. Held on with velcro so you can remove it to check for damage. A friend had one, but lost it after a wipeout. Make sure its very secure, or floats.
Once past the beginner stage, I think I will do that.







PhilUK
424 posts
18 Jan 2022 4:04PM
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SA_AL said..
I did not ask where he got his shield but it looked like a simple homemade sheet of soft material.


You should have asked him and got more information. What sail was it, was it a cammed sail?

John340
QLD, 2566 posts
18 Jan 2022 8:15PM
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SA_AL said..

Mark _australia said..
^^^ gotta be better than no padding

And its better than padding on the board that you advocate as it can crack under the EVA foam and let water in.
Every beginner / intermediate board I have ever seen with homemade EVA nose "protector" had a ton of major cracks under it.

Catapault is stage we all go thru, learn to not do it eventually and in the mean time some damage that is easily fixed will be sustained

Sticking random EVA on the board devalues it more as a cluey buyer wants to know what's under it...



Even when you're experienced, you still have a chance to catapult such as you may hit a kelp or big fish, caught in strange wave etc. As I wrote in the original post, this particular racer is an outstanding foiler but still using this protective shield.


Two things happen when you gain experience. Firstly the incidence of catapulting reduces significantly. Secondly you hold onto the boom in a catapult and you perform a senior forward roll and the mast clears the nose of the board.

PatK
204 posts
18 Jan 2022 6:59PM
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But what if there is drifting weed or plastic in the water? You will still have catapults

Mark _australia
WA, 21342 posts
18 Jan 2022 7:22PM
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SA_AL said..
Even when you're experienced, you still have a chance to catapult such as you may hit a kelp or big fish, caught in strange wave etc. As I wrote in the original post, this particular racer is an outstanding foiler but still using this protective shield.


Agreed. My main point is this padding is a good idea, but Sandman has said the board can still be damaged with it in place (true bit its still a help) and in other threads he continually advocates for gluing EVA on high points of the board. Trust me as a repairer I disagree due to cracking underneath - but if people want to devalue their board and hand me money, they can.

SA_AL
231 posts
18 Jan 2022 8:39PM
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PhilUK said..


SA_AL said..
I did not ask where he got his shield but it looked like a simple homemade sheet of soft material.




You should have asked him and got more information. What sail was it, was it a cammed sail?



He uses Severne Race Foil sail 9 m with 4 cam. But I didn't ask where he got the protective shield, it looked thinner. I will share here in the forum if I find out more information. As I see, there are already some good ideas suggested. I have 7 m 3 cam Severne Glide 2 requires rdm mast I will try to see if I could slide the pipe insulation under the sail; however, I am not sure how that will be effecting rotation of the sail.

Paducah
1817 posts
19 Jan 2022 1:10AM
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John340 said..

Two things happen when you gain experience. Firstly the incidence of catapulting reduces significantly. Secondly you hold onto the boom in a catapult and you perform a senior forward roll and the mast clears the nose of the board.


Yes, and, in my experience, no. Depends on a lot of things such as your heading, shape of the nose and even if you are using the front of the mast track vs the back.

My last two hard hits were 1) hitting something underwater mid jibe so the mast went straight forward 2) breeching OPed on a tight reach on a 198cm board. Other than just hanging on, things happen too fast to do much else. Being more experienced means I catapult (lot) less often but the ones I have tend to be spectacular.

I'm a proponent of minimal graphics in front of the mast track. Just give me a white or whatever nose that I can patch and rattle can. Helped a buddy had multiple hits on an RRD with a white nose and it was an easy fix (btw, thanks to Mark_australia for the tips on that one)

Sandman1221
1810 posts
19 Jan 2022 3:27AM
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Mark _australia said..
Lee is onto it, pipe insulation from hardware store (I'd say pool noodle too thick for internal use)


I used a large pool noodle, mast punched through it after 2nd or 3rd time, because the cells in the foam get crushed and stop giving impact protection.

If you make a two layer nose protector with a hard shell on the top like I did, mast cannot punch through it. If you just put a layer of foam on the nose it will not stop damage, agree with you on that Mark.

berowne
NSW, 710 posts
19 Jan 2022 12:47PM
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OR as you gain experience you are already using max down-force so when you catapult you go straight THROUGH the middle of the nose!
As I did.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Foil-board-Repair-Job-The-new-nose-you-all-need

At the end of the (long) post I show the Foam nose protector I use, held on with hot-melt glue... and it is working a treat. Survived MANY hard catapults on the path to 30 knots!

antonmik
141 posts
19 Jan 2022 2:54PM
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PatK said..
I made a protector for outside the sail of a foam roll. These are made to isolate heater pipes. Cheap at the home depot. It is fixed to the mast on both sides with flexible line. Works great and protects the sail also.





I'm thinking of taking the same insulation pipe and sticking it on the drain pipe ring to keep it better. or you can even put it on top.

Sandman1221
1810 posts
20 Jan 2022 9:29AM
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here is my nose job, 1/16" thick waterproof wall plastic (4x8 foot sheet at HomeDepot is $20), and 1/2" thick dense gym mat EVA foam, bonded with spray adhesive, black Gorilla tape on the nose and trailing edges.




ZeroVix
265 posts
20 Jan 2022 10:36AM
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Sandman1221 said..
here is my nose job, 1/16" thick waterproof wall plastic (4x8 foot sheet at HomeDepot is $20), and 1/2" thick dense gym mat EVA foam, bonded with spray adhesive, black Gorilla tape on the nose and trailing edges.





I hope it works. But to be honest, it is one of the ugliest looking jobs. No offense . I would hate my board. No really, it looks like ****.

For guys using the pipe foam - does it really offer enough protection? I use it for my fuse on the foils for transportation. Works well. But for impact? Don't think it would be that great.

Sandman1221
1810 posts
20 Jan 2022 9:55PM
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ZeroVix said..



Sandman1221 said..
here is my nose job, 1/16" thick waterproof wall plastic (4x8 foot sheet at HomeDepot is $20), and 1/2" thick dense gym mat EVA foam, bonded with spray adhesive, black Gorilla tape on the nose and trailing edges.







I hope it works. But to be honest, it is one of the ugliest looking jobs. No offense . I would hate my board. No really, it looks like ****.

For guys using the pipe foam - does it really offer enough protection? I use it for my fuse on the foils for transportation. Works well. But for impact? Don't think it would be that great.




Seriously ZeroVix!, you care what my nose protector looks like? I painted it black to match initially but that wore off, and I was like who cares?, I certainly did not. But now I will remember that ZeroVix cares!, what a kind and thoughtful person you are.

PatK
204 posts
20 Jan 2022 11:02PM
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This week i was building the front protector for my new Alien 120 board. It is made of 3 layers triax glass and some 200gr glas fabric, 3mm thick and weighs around 300gr. Filler is applied and sanded but it is too cold and windy for the color finish work. So sorry for the ugly stick
It will be fastened with UHU mounting glue, very strong, gap filling and 100% transparent.
The one that i had on my 125 alien was only 200gr and lasted very well.
With the outer foam pipe i have a good protection too for the sail against slipping it over the grip of the board, what costed me my 7.8 overdrive sail two years ago when i hit a driftwood at silvaplana.


Sandman1221
1810 posts
20 Jan 2022 11:06PM
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PatK said..
This week i was building a front protector for my new Alien 120 board. It is made of 3 layers triax glass and some 200gr glas fabric, 3mm thick and weighs around 300gr. Filler is applied and sanded but it is too cold and windy for the color finish work. So sorry for the ugly stick
It will be fastened with UHU mounting glue, very strong, gap filling and 100% transparent.
The one that i had on my 125 alien was only 200gr and lasted very well.
With the outer foam pipe i have a good protection too for the sail against slipping it over the grip of the board, what costed me my 7.8 overdrive sail two years ago when i hit a driftwood at silvaplana.





Looks good, but I would check with ZeroVix for the proper color scheme before painting, they evidently are very fashion conscious!

PatK
204 posts
20 Jan 2022 11:11PM
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Will look like this one i made last year


Sandman1221
1810 posts
20 Jan 2022 11:16PM
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PatK said..
Will look like this one i made last year



That is a professional looking job PatK. My only concern about hard nose protectors is that when the mast hits them it is hitting a hard surface.

PatK
204 posts
20 Jan 2022 11:38PM
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No risk with the foam pipe on it



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"Different nose protection" started by SA_AL