Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Best prone board shape?

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Created by foilstate 6 months ago, 13 Nov 2021
foilstate
72 posts
13 Nov 2021 3:18AM
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What are the best prone foil board shapes/brands out there? Seeking advice.

I am 75kg on a 5'0 38L, looking to upgrade for a 4'5 34L roughly. Connecting several waves in a row, decent turns, not strapped, not hitting the foam yet. Currently searching in europe, would like to have the appletree kinda construction (quite light and ultra rigid) with a better shape ideally..

Curious to hear your opinion on current prone shapes!

Appreciate your help,
Thanks!

Hdip
274 posts
13 Nov 2021 4:06AM
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www.instagram.com/p/CSe-W5uo9tU/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

52foilboards, designed in France. I ride one here in Los Angeles and it has held up to a year of hard abuse. Lately I've been trying unstrapped airs falling on it on occasion and it's still going solid. Riding a 4'6".

eppo
WA, 8837 posts
13 Nov 2021 7:44AM
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That's the exact size and litreage of the new Armstrong FG I have. I'm same weight. Good board. I like the look of amos boards as well, double concave at nose, flat bottom to the tail, decent sharp chimes. Both have these. The new PPC prone looks interesting as well.

hilly
WA, 6608 posts
13 Nov 2021 9:52AM
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JS Eagle are good according to a prone guy here. I have towed the 4 10 and it felt really nice compared to other boards I have used www.jsindustries.com/black-eagle-foil

eppo
WA, 8837 posts
13 Nov 2021 12:24PM
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Yeh they are I've tried one. Nice board as well. Forgot about that one.

toppleover
QLD, 1990 posts
13 Nov 2021 6:13PM
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These go pretty good




foilthegreats
349 posts
13 Nov 2021 11:24PM
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The Appletree is actually a great prone surf shape. Just check out what Paul Cooper does with it: www.instagram.com/reel/CT-N58ADubo/?utm_medium=copy_link

frenchfoiler
412 posts
13 Nov 2021 11:38PM
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Lots of good boards, I guess it depends where you live. If you know what dimensions you want and if you don't go for a custom, you need to make sure the positioning of the box will fit your foil. If you buy throught a surfshop, make sure they know what they are talking about.
For example, on a 4'6 Sunova I don't think a Unifoil or Signature (at least the smaller sizes) will be a good fit, but a Gofoil or Takuma will be good.

Construction is also super important.

And last thing but on this one that is really personal. Go for a custom board with a shaper dedicated to foil, it is always nice to create with somebody your own board.

foilstate
72 posts
15 Nov 2021 12:06AM
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Thanks for all the suggestions!
It would be mainly for south portugal, big variety of conditions but usually waves with power. Currently on the takuma kujiras.. absolute gold!
From what I can collect I picture a narrow board, volume on the front, recessed deck, tight tail, soft bottom rails that don't catch on touchdowns.
- The Armstrong 4'5" is a great looking board, just a bit afraid of the width (especially around the tail area) that won't allow for very steep angles in turns (?)
- The appletree profoil has a questionable bottom shape I think, flat or double concave seem to be the way to go at the moment.
- 52 Foilboard : Is there a stringer running along the board or any other rigidity conservation over time feature? (as discussed in the thread "Prone Board design progression is an illusion")
- Black Eagle and Amos : Anyone found a way to get those in Europe?

frenchfoiler
412 posts
15 Nov 2021 1:47AM
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Select to expand quote
foilstate said..
Thanks for all the suggestions!
It would be mainly for south portugal, big variety of conditions but usually waves with power. Currently on the takuma kujiras.. absolute gold!
From what I can collect I picture a narrow board, volume on the front, recessed deck, tight tail, soft bottom rails that don't catch on touchdowns.
- The Armstrong 4'5" is a great looking board, just a bit afraid of the width (especially around the tail area) that won't allow for very steep angles in turns (?)
- The appletree profoil has a questionable bottom shape I think, flat or double concave seem to be the way to go at the moment.
- 52 Foilboard : Is there a stringer running along the board or any other rigidity conservation over time feature? (as discussed in the thread "Prone Board design progression is an illusion")
- Black Eagle and Amos : Anyone found a way to get those in Europe?


I run the brand 52foilboard, so I can tell you exactly. The construction is eps no stringer, full carbone, super light super stiff.

Black Eagle, you can find those throught surfshop working with JS surfboards. In France I've seen those in surfshop.

Hdip
274 posts
15 Nov 2021 5:00AM
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foilstate said..(as discussed in the thread "Prone Board design progression is an illusion")



I've been pondering that question since the thread. I've brought it up in the LosAngelesFoilClub whatsapp thread and had no less than 3 shapers/glassers say that a board losing it's "pop" is not a thing. It's not like a skateboard, which is the analogy I put forward since skateboards do obviously decline over time.

Several of us in there. Myself included have year old boards. (I only have the one board so can't personally test) Other guys who go through and currently own multiple boards, say the properly constructed year old boards, feel the same as brand new properly constructed boards. All EPS no stringer.

eppo
WA, 8837 posts
15 Nov 2021 6:28AM
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Select to expand quote
foilstate said..
Thanks for all the suggestions!
It would be mainly for south portugal, big variety of conditions but usually waves with power. Currently on the takuma kujiras.. absolute gold!
From what I can collect I picture a narrow board, volume on the front, recessed deck, tight tail, soft bottom rails that don't catch on touchdowns.
- The Armstrong 4'5" is a great looking board, just a bit afraid of the width (especially around the tail area) that won't allow for very steep angles in turns (?)
- The appletree profoil has a questionable bottom shape I think, flat or double concave seem to be the way to go at the moment.
- 52 Foilboard : Is there a stringer running along the board or any other rigidity conservation over time feature? (as discussed in the thread "Prone Board design progression is an illusion")
- Black Eagle and Amos : Anyone found a way to get those in Europe?



Maybe drop amos a line. Never know. Shipping cost at the moment might kill ya though. Have a mate getting a custom made amos board right now and they were excellent to deal with, great communication and flexibility in what he wanted. Sent multiple design briefs through. Even sent a video of his board under going construction - was cool. But he lives down under. These boards have all the requirements you specified.

foilgold
19 posts
15 Nov 2021 12:55PM
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Hdip said..

foilstate said..(as discussed in the thread "Prone Board design progression is an illusion")




I've been pondering that question since the thread. I've brought it up in the LosAngelesFoilClub whatsapp thread and had no less than 3 shapers/glassers say that a board losing it's "pop" is not a thing. It's not like a skateboard, which is the analogy I put forward since skateboards do obviously decline over time.

Several of us in there. Myself included have year old boards. (I only have the one board so can't personally test) Other guys who go through and currently own multiple boards, say the properly constructed year old boards, feel the same as brand new properly constructed boards. All EPS no stringer.


Carbon keeps its pop for an extremely long time. (8 years plus?!) Especiallly if the carbon is vacumed on properly and board is built right. Normal wood stringer contruction will lose its pop over time.

Have to throw another board option up that is extremely light and stong from the carbon gurus at Dark Arts. Version 2 has slightly more pulled in tail and nose. Slightly more rocker than most foil boards equals tighter turns with less pitch correction. Alex who works with Justin at Dark Arts foils a bunch. Shipping might be a bunch, but they have lots of experience shipping boards all over the world. Carbon Foil boards are harder to make than normal carbon surfboards
darkartssurf.com/collections/jt/products/jt-foil-board

foilstate
72 posts
16 Nov 2021 5:00PM
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What are the pros and cons of having sharp or soft bottom rails?
The Amos Raptor or Armstrong is all smooth, on the other end of the spectrum the Appletree or Takoon Slate have quite sharp bevel angles.
My guess would be that the sharp beveled rails releases water early on take off but then catch on touchdowns in turns, while a soft bottom contour would release later on take off but not catch water as much on touchdowns, is that correct?



eppo
WA, 8837 posts
16 Nov 2021 9:13PM
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Maybe. I know the new armie board releases fine and bounces off the water just fine. So does the amos.

shaka808
21 posts
17 Nov 2021 1:28AM
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Hdip said..


foilstate said..(as discussed in the thread "Prone Board design progression is an illusion")





I've been pondering that question since the thread. I've brought it up in the LosAngelesFoilClub whatsapp thread and had no less than 3 shapers/glassers say that a board losing it's "pop" is not a thing. It's not like a skateboard, which is the analogy I put forward since skateboards do obviously decline over time.

Several of us in there. Myself included have year old boards. (I only have the one board so can't personally test) Other guys who go through and currently own multiple boards, say the properly constructed year old boards, feel the same as brand new properly constructed boards. All EPS no stringer.



Guarantee they lose some pop. Having broken multiple boards from a couple of those shapers/glasses I can see from a marketing/sales perspective while they would vehemently disagree.

That said I don't believe that a custom vacuum bagged full carbon board loses as much "pop" as say a skateboard does. It's a much smaller percentage loss through minor flexing, but I do notice it at times. Normally when slow and trying to pump/dig out of a hole you can feel it flex. If you have ever broken a track box, it's really noticeable, and it's the same feeling but very very minor in comparison on a year old board I have. This is in relation to another newer custom board from the same shaper.

I think it's also important to consider hours spent on board, and amount of time pumping. A year old board for me has >700 hours on it and I pump a lot. Someone who only foils on the weekend might only put 150 hours on their board in a year, and might not pump hardly at all.

mcrt
465 posts
17 Nov 2021 7:16AM
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shaka808 said..
I think it's also important to consider hours spent on board, and amount of time pumping. A year old board for me has >700 hours on it and I pump a lot. Someone who only foils on the weekend might only put 150 hours on their board in a year, and might not pump hardly at all.


So you surffoil 1.9 hours a day, every single day year round?

shaka808
21 posts
17 Nov 2021 12:07PM
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mcrt said..

shaka808 said..
I think it's also important to consider hours spent on board, and amount of time pumping. A year old board for me has >700 hours on it and I pump a lot. Someone who only foils on the weekend might only put 150 hours on their board in a year, and might not pump hardly at all.



So you surffoil 1.9 hours a day, every single day year round?


2hrs a day is a pretty good average for me. I foil 2-3 hours a day, and only missed 3 days last year. Missed a few more this year because of injury.

mcrt
465 posts
17 Nov 2021 3:09PM
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shaka808 said..

mcrt said..
So you surffoil 1.9 hours a day, every single day year round?



2hrs a day is a pretty good average for me. I foil 2-3 hours a day, and only missed 3 days last year. Missed a few more this year because of injury.


Wow!!,i thought you were just throwing a number out there, that is seriously impressive watertime.Jealous as... :)

foilstate
72 posts
17 Nov 2021 7:56PM
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shaka808 thanks for your input! Spending that time in the water, then you probably have a good sense of what works. What board and foil do you usually ride?

shaka808
21 posts
18 Nov 2021 2:22AM
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foilstate said..
shaka808 thanks for your input! Spending that time in the water, then you probably have a good sense of what works. What board and foil do you usually ride?



I have a couple boards from Amundson currently, and really am hesitant to try anything else. I broke 3 custom boards from 2 different SoCal board builders last year in the course of like 4 months which was a rather expensive experience. I have had 4 boards from amundson and never had an issue with breakage, so I'm keeping with what works for me! Everyday driver is 4'6 x 17". Good balance of being able to paddle long distances and catch waves, but still pumps really well. I have a 4'3 x 18.5 I ride on small days, which feels amazing for pumping but it doesn't paddle nearly as well and harder to get into overhead waves early enough.
Foils, I've tried a few different manufacturers (Lift, Armstrong, Takuma, Cloud) but have been set on Axis for 1.5 years. I like the response of the aluminum mast, and it's definitely more efficient for pumping. I can feel the carbon masts flex laterally when pumping, feels like a wet noodle in comparison to the aluminum. Front wing I'm on the 810 prolly 70% of the time. I ride the 700 when it's well overhead, and the 999 when it's knee high or less. Had a few different red series wings as well, but sold em all when the black series came out.

Hwy1North
49 posts
19 Nov 2021 1:36AM
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Second the custom Amundson. The production Firebolts are really nice too if the dimensions fit you.

amundsonfoil.com/collections/all-products/products/fire-bolt

foilstate
72 posts
29 Jan 2022 12:07AM
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A big thank you for all your advices, it helped me to understand what would be the ultimate prone board for my use, proning medium power waves with white wash hits. Hopefully this thread can help other people out there.

The top designs I was looking at were the Black Eagle from JS, the Amos Raptor, the Firebolt from Amundson, the Armstrong FG.

Living in south portugal, I opted to talk with Jorrit from Appletree as I love their construction, and he was kind enough to come up with a new design that checks all the boxes and more, a true masterpiece. They normally do not do entirely new designs for a customer, they can adapt exisiting templates.

The resulting custom is a 4'6, 18.5" wide, 6.6mm thick, 32.5 liters, 2.8kg.
- Widest point forward and pulled out tail : for good paddling and avoiding rails touchdown during tight turns, largely inspired from Adam Bennets and Kane de Wilde iterations.
- Decent entry rocker, soft bottom rails at the front, sharper rails at the back : for foam hits and touchdowns, to release the water at the back, Jorrit made the whole design.
- Long (32cm, experimental) and forward foil box : for less swing weight at the front and foil compatibility, inspired from Armstrong boards.
- Recessed deck : to have a 0 degree angle of the deck and foil box.

First sessions on it feel right on point, doing everything I wanted and more. Paddling great for its size, feels very lively and loose in turns, when hitting the white wash it behaves like a shortboard, and the tail keeps releasing the water. The ultimate prone board for my use, calling it the white eagle ;)

Again, thanks for all your advices and feedback, the foiling community is a true blessing!


greg87foil
129 posts
29 Jan 2022 6:38AM
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Select to expand quote
foilstate said..
A big thank you for all your advices, it helped me to understand what would be the ultimate prone board for my use, proning medium power waves with white wash hits. Hopefully this thread can help other people out there.

The top designs I was looking at were the Black Eagle from JS, the Amos Raptor, the Firebolt from Amundson, the Armstrong FG.

Living in south portugal, I opted to talk with Jorrit from Appletree as I love their construction, and he was kind enough to come up with a new design that checks all the boxes and more, a true masterpiece. They normally do not do entirely new designs for a customer, they can adapt exisiting templates.

The resulting custom is a 4'6, 18.5" wide, 6.6mm thick, 32.5 liters, 2.8kg.
- Widest point forward and pulled out tail : for good paddling and avoiding rails touchdown during tight turns, largely inspired from Adam Bennets and Kane de Wilde iterations.
- Decent entry rocker, soft bottom rails at the front, sharper rails at the back : for foam hits and touchdowns, to release the water at the back, Jorrit made the whole design.
- Long (32cm, experimental) and forward foil box : for less swing weight at the front and foil compatibility, inspired from Armstrong boards.
- Recessed deck : to have a 0 degree angle of the deck and foil box.

First sessions on it feel right on point, doing everything I wanted and more. Paddling great for its size, feels very lively and loose in turns, when hitting the white wash it behaves like a shortboard, and the tail keeps releasing the water. The ultimate prone board for my use, calling it the white eagle ;)

Again, thanks for all your advices and feedback, the foiling community is a true blessing!





Looks amazing!!

whereabouts in south Portugal are you? We have a good little Algarve crew foiling on the south coast as well as west coast when it's smaller, do I know you?

randomfoiler
42 posts
29 Jan 2022 9:23AM
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foilstate said..

Living in south portugal, I opted to talk with Jorrit from Appletree as I love their construction, and he was kind enough to come up with a new design that checks all the boxes and more, a true masterpiece. They normally do not do entirely new designs for a customer, they can adapt exisiting templates.




This looks fantastic!
Would be interesting to know if they would consider making a similar board for winging (4.6x22 and maybe around 45/48l) ...

greg87foil
129 posts
7 Feb 2022 12:25AM
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Any thoughts on new Amundson boards?

Super Model
4'4" x 17" - 31L
4'6" x 17" - 34L
4'8" x 17.5" 37L

Also updated, Fire Bolt V2:
4'2" x 17.75" - 32L
4'6" x 18" - 35L
4'10" x 18.5" - 38L

amundsonfoil.com/collections/foil-boards/products/super-model-foil-board

Narrower than anything else I've seen!

Piros
QLD, 6390 posts
7 Feb 2022 10:14AM
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I've only seen one of the new Amundson's in the flesh and they look super narrow , would take some getting used to, beautiful-looking boards.

foilstate
72 posts
7 Feb 2022 8:13PM
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What are the tradeoffs around super narrow prone boards? Anyone tried and compared a 17" with 19" for example?

JonnieTyler
9 posts
8 Feb 2022 12:40AM
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foilstate said..
What are the tradeoffs around super narrow prone boards? Anyone tried and compared a 17" with 19" for example?


According to Amundson, super narrow for paddling speed. James Casey is also going narrower on his SUP foilboards to make getting up on foil a lot easier.

My current favorite is a KT Drifter F 4'4" x 19 1/2" 34L. I just ordered the Amundson Super Model 4'4" x 17" 31L. Hopefully the new board arrives before the weekend so I can test it out.

juandesooka
565 posts
8 Feb 2022 12:52AM
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Kalama also going narrower on his sup foil boards, but specifically for downwinding. His explanation in a podcast was they are designed to maximize takeoff potential at critical moment, versus most boards being designed mainly for the 90% of its time spent paddling back out. He said his boards are more intended to be paddled on your knees. So that's a pretty specialized thing, kinda like those 14' skinny paddle longboards.

I wonder how thick those Amundson's are, to get 37L for a 17.5" board? Unlikely this old guy's gonna be chasing these dreams ... sadly, need that extra paddling capability.

Piros
QLD, 6390 posts
8 Feb 2022 3:54PM
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foilstate said..
What are the tradeoffs around super narrow prone boards? Anyone tried and compared a 17" with 19" for example?



The down side to making the boards narrow and still keeping the volume is thickness and chunky rails. That's the complete reverse to JS boards with thinner boards and much more surf defined rails. My DC's are along the JS concept , the board shape is playing a much more engaged role now with more aggressive foiling engaging the board and rails on the wave in turns. Amundsen must have addressed this in their rail profile but I have never ridden one so can't comment on how well it works. Alot of riders don't like their boards any thicker than 2-1/2" so 17" wide is out of the question. Super narrow is NOT the only answer to paddle speed , hull shape and smart foam placement can also achieve this and still keep the litres low to sub 30's even for guys my size at 88 kg.



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"Best prone board shape?" started by foilstate