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Cole 23 brought sight unseen..... how bad could it be?..

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Created by Cabron 2 months ago, 13 Nov 2020
Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
13 Nov 2020 10:18PM
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Yes a Friday 13th, but not April fools....

Foolishly,
I may have accidentally brought a Cole 23, well I can always so no, however I've just put a deposit on a yacht sight unseen and 1 photo shown.....right price....
Will view Sunday, however i've I have had limited luck finding my larger yacht, and wanted a day sailor mooring minder that had some style, and allowed me to sit on the water again.

Previous yacht was a very cool Cole Bounty 35, so I guess she's in the blood line

www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/neutral-bay/sail-boats/cole-23-sailboat/1260674308

So,

Anyone got experience of what to look for on this yacht?

I'm not going to lift/survey, it's been floating this long, it's all good.

Antifouled recent(6months)

The rigging is like fencing wire I presume, and pot luck?

Sails apparently good, interior needs touch up??.?.?

Motor needs a service? Its a 2 stroke, plugs, new fuel, oils?.

Mast step area..??

Head needs service.....,(blocked with COVID paper)

How do they go? I'm hoping she's a fixed keel, if she's got ok sails, with a mini refit, she might make a great day sailor, or overnighter?

Understand there's faster designs, however at 48% ballast ratio she should be good for Sydney/Pittwater runs, and under bridge chop?

Sort of excited, haven't spent any boat dollars in a while, and need a mini project...and that 1 photo sort of looks ok... haha

FabulousPhill
VIC, 88 posts
13 Nov 2020 10:31PM
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Let's start with your avatar, "Don't believe everything you think"


Select to expand quote
Cabron said..


Sails apparently good, interior needs touch up??.?.?

... I'm hoping she's a fixed keel, if she's got ok sails, with a mini refit, she might make a great day sailor, or overnighter? ....... that 1 photo sort of looks ok... haha



I do hope you phoned the seller rather than this "apparently....I'm hoping.......sort of looks OK". That's a lot of blind hope (I can't call it 'blind faith' - it's hope, not faith).
I hope you didn't pay too much deposit.

But on the other hand, I've done the same, and for $3 1/2 k, it might be absolutely fine. If the inspection does not match the description, you will have a remedy under Consumer Affairs legislation, misrepresentation.

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
13 Nov 2020 10:41PM
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FabulousPhill said..
Let's start with your avatar, "Don't believe everything you think"



Cabron said..


Sails apparently good, interior needs touch up??.?.?

... I'm hoping she's a fixed keel, if she's got ok sails, with a mini refit, she might make a great day sailor, or overnighter? ....... that 1 photo sort of looks ok... haha




I do hope you phoned the seller rather than this "apparently....I'm hoping.......sort of looks OK". That's a lot of blind hope (I can't call it 'blind faith' - it's hope, not faith).
I hope you didn't pay too much deposit.

But on the other hand, I've done the same, and for $3 1/2 k, it might be absolutely fine. If the inspection does not match the description, you will have a remedy under Consumer Affairs legislation, misrepresentation.


Ok, I should of put some background, a few emails, and phone call/text with seller, not asked for deposit however knowing 3.5k is an ok price, and made first contact after 25 minutes listed, expected others to do the gamble deposit as well. Got it in writing (text message) that deposit is refundable on any condition after inspection.

3 outcomes really
1) If it works out, bargain,
2) if not( and they don't exist)... a gamble with a couple hundred... for the potential?
3) possibly just get deposit back if it's a floating birds nest

Has anyone seen this advertised previously??

Oh well, I haven't had a gamble in a while. ??

Zzzzzz
484 posts
13 Nov 2020 7:43PM
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Have a good look at the rudder I saw one that lost it

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
13 Nov 2020 11:02PM
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Zzzzzz said..
Have a good look at the rudder I saw one that lost it



Will do, twist, shake, shaft/bearings, look for water logged, blotting?, fasteners to transom, backing plates, hinges etc ?
or make sure it's present, and not on a painter being towed behind boat....

Cheers

Zzzzzz
484 posts
13 Nov 2020 8:15PM
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Select to expand quote
Cabron said..

Zzzzzz said..
Have a good look at the rudder I saw one that lost it




Will do, twist, shake, shaft/bearings, look for water logged, blotting?, fasteners to transom, backing plates, hinges etc ?
or make sure it's present, and not on a painter being towed behind boat....

Cheers


Enjoy , the first day is only bettered by the second happiest day .

Bananabender
QLD, 1226 posts
14 Nov 2020 7:48AM
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Effectively your looking at a trailer sailer with a fixed keel (hopefully you say).
From all accounts they are a really good solid boat. I would be checking for soft deck spots especially foredeck ,water in bilge (salt or fresh) and standing rigging fasteners etc.
repairs to hull?
Electrics probably shot , battery ?
The mast base plate will probably be for a trailer sailer and Keeley Marine Melbourne have them for all size masts for around $80 bucks.
Rudder transom mount on pintles? ,not an issue. If trailer sailer its a swing keel
on hydraulics ,hopefully the above water hydraulics ,check seal, check around keel box for signs of leakage. Hey $3000 for a stripped out fixed keel old 23 ft sounds about right. Just think with head not heart .
I raced a Bounty back in the day as well, fantastic memories of her.
Good luck

DrogueOne
VIC, 86 posts
14 Nov 2020 12:41PM
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Love it! What a great impulse purchase. The one picture looks tidy, hoping it works out well for you.
#onlyliveonce

fishmonkey
NSW, 487 posts
14 Nov 2020 5:47PM
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does he/she/they have a name?

Ramona
NSW, 5900 posts
14 Nov 2020 7:03PM
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I would just check whether the seller has the rego papers and the names the same as the blokes drivers license. That sort of money nothing else matters. They are a nice little boat and fine for coastal passages.

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
14 Nov 2020 7:24PM
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fishmonkey said..
does he/she/they have a name?


I think it's Scorpio, however gonna be named Max

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
14 Nov 2020 7:24PM
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Select to expand quote
fishmonkey said..
does he/she/they have a name?


I think it's Scorpio, however gonna be named Max

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
14 Nov 2020 7:28PM
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Ramona said..
I would just check whether the seller has the rego papers and the names the same as the blokes drivers license. That sort of money nothing else matters. They are a nice little boat and fine for coastal passages.


Thanks, never thought of checking for the lowest common dominator factor.

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
18 Nov 2020 10:03PM
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Deal done, got her for a ok price, as she's very much a project boat on the inside, and decks.

Going there tomorrow to try and tempt the outbound into life(no fuel when I first visited and a negotiation point), hopefully runs then I can motor from the Harbour Bridge to Drummoyne. However if all goes pear shaped, and motor 'No Go' how does one arrange a tow on the harbour??? No, I wasn't planning on setting adrift and calling RMS....
Is there a cost effective tow service available??
Google isn't revealing much any less on the road..

jbarnes85
NSW, 161 posts
18 Nov 2020 10:18PM
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It's not that far. If you have a shipwright they might be able to do it. You could try presidents or the one at Balmain Marine center and see if they would do it.
ive used presidents for some stuff lately and they have been excellent. Even charged me less than what they quoted to put spacers under my engine mounts.

Azure305
NSW, 279 posts
18 Nov 2020 10:26PM
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Hey Cabron, congrats on the purchase.
If you get stuck with a "no go" tomorrow, i can get to the Harbour Bridge in about 20mins from my mooring (which is only 10-15mins from Drummoyne). Happy to give a tow if you need, I have plenty of heavy tow lines. Let me know if u like, ill PM you my mbl#

FabulousPhill
VIC, 88 posts
18 Nov 2020 10:37PM
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Congratulations on the purchase and I'm glad most of it corresponded to the description.
If the OB spins OK, fresh fuel and it should work, being simple things. Otherwise borrow an outboard and/or learn to sail it home.

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
27 Nov 2020 10:24PM
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Project Update:
1) Motor started easily, ran multiple times on mooring and took through rev range!!! All good, will motor back to my mooring... only 4-5miles...what could possibly go wrong

2) Motor stops 5 minutes after leaving mooring right in front of Kirribilli House with onshore winds... can see myself on 7news

3) RMS kindly offer me a tow home, and donation paid... embarrassed but respect for their volunteers

4) Carby rebuild kit through and tested today, we now have a reliable motor ?

5) Took a Gerni to deck/cockpit and part of inside... yes inside ?

6) Windows rebeded ?

7) Next jobs - New footing under compression post, thinking 2 10mm S/S plates, with 10mm jacking bolts to load up compression post??? Thoughts?? Should I drop mast prior?

8) Trying to find new Tiller, would prefer wood however thinking of 50mm SHS S/S for 1/2 of it, then slide 50mm dowel inside and fastened??? Thoughts??

9) Need to repair Gooseneck, exploring options

Question

My first Outboard/Tiller yacht, it feels like it has weather helm to Starboard while under motor(don't know about under sail yet), Motor is on right, is that normal??
Seriously 2-3 heavier to steer. Is this normal with outboards??



ChopesBro
277 posts
27 Nov 2020 8:17PM
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What's the motor size?

i run a 3 1/2 hp on the right side and wouldn't really know it's under hand?

clearly you don't have water in the bilge slopping to one side

shaggybaxter
QLD, 2228 posts
28 Nov 2020 12:05AM
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Select to expand quote


Question

My first Outboard/Tiller yacht, it feels like it has weather helm to Starboard while under motor(don't know about under sail yet), Motor is on right, is that normal??
Seriously 2-3 heavier to steer. Is this normal with outboards??





Hiya Cabron,
it's not by any chance the same issue as another recent poster that Lydia picked up on, where the rudder isn't being held down when underway?
check to make sure it's not lifting as you're motoring.
Cheers!
SB

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
28 Nov 2020 3:38PM
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ChopesBro said..
What's the motor size?

i run a 3 1/2 hp on the right side and wouldn't really know it's under hand?

clearly you don't have water in the bilge slopping to one side


6HP, no water

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
28 Nov 2020 3:40PM
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Select to expand quote
shaggybaxter said..



Question

My first Outboard/Tiller yacht, it feels like it has weather helm to Starboard while under motor(don't know about under sail yet), Motor is on right, is that normal??
Seriously 2-3 heavier to steer. Is this normal with outboards??






Hiya Cabron,
it's not by any chance the same issue as another recent poster that Lydia picked up on, where the rudder isn't being held down when underway?
check to make sure it's not lifting as you're motoring.
Cheers!
SB


Fixed Rudder, and Fixed Keel..., note I even felt it heavy under tow.... know I haven't had a tiller yacht in 10 years, but don't remember this

southace
SA, 4652 posts
28 Nov 2020 3:31PM
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You may find its heavy on the tiller if its a fixed keel and rudder most likely has not been slipped and antifouled for a trillion years just living life as a mooring minder.

woko
NSW, 792 posts
28 Nov 2020 5:14PM
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Carbon are you steering with the outboard or the tiller ?
Could be an oyster farm on one side ? Pintles or rudder post bearings could be seized ? Tiller to short ? Is the outboard thrusting dead ahead ? Can you move it to even the thrust ?
More questions than answers I'm afraid

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
28 Nov 2020 11:04PM
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southace said..
You may find its heavy on the tiller if its a fixed keel and rudder most likely has not been slipped and antifouled for a trillion years just living life as a mooring minder.


Antifouled within 1 month, worth half the price I paid for her

Cabron
NSW, 333 posts
28 Nov 2020 11:12PM
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woko said..
Carbon are you steering with the outboard or the tiller ?
Could be an oyster farm on one side ? Pintles or rudder post bearings could be seized ? Tiller to short ? Is the outboard thrusting dead ahead ? Can you move it to even the thrust ?
More questions than answers I'm afraid


1) Tiller
2) Oysters eaten
3) I've got to put washers on rudder brackets, however at mooring no difference either side
4) Original Tiller.... I think.... but why different either side?
5) Outboard direction, yes I started to experiment, should it be dead ahead, or offset to compensate for prop walk or torque steer????

I'm thinking of putting a tiller pilot as I'm generally single handed, it would struggle against the load I presume...
will take her somewhere less sharky and dive on her to see down under...(maybe to find the keel at 15 degrees!!! )

Ramona
NSW, 5900 posts
29 Nov 2020 8:31AM
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Take a swim and check out the shell on the keel. There will be more shell on the side that gets more sun. Scrape off all the shell and go for a test sail. Probably have a large piece of Cungy [spelling] on one side down on the keel.

woko
NSW, 792 posts
29 Nov 2020 8:48AM
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Cab on my Hartley the outboard was mounted on the port side, and the outboard tiller was to starboard a little to balance the prop wash and have the boat tiller centred

shaggybaxter
QLD, 2228 posts
29 Nov 2020 8:08AM
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Select to expand quote
Cabron said..




woko said..
Carbon are you steering with the outboard or the tiller ?
Could be an oyster farm on one side ? Pintles or rudder post bearings could be seized ? Tiller to short ? Is the outboard thrusting dead ahead ? Can you move it to even the thrust ?
More questions than answers I'm afraid






1) Tiller
2) Oysters eaten
3) I've got to put washers on rudder brackets, however at mooring no difference either side
4) Original Tiller.... I think.... but why different either side?
5) Outboard direction, yes I started to experiment, should it be dead ahead, or offset to compensate for prop walk or torque steer????

I'm thinking of putting a tiller pilot as I'm generally single handed, it would struggle against the load I presume...
will take her somewhere less sharky and dive on her to see down under...(maybe to find the keel at 15 degrees!!! )





To answer you're original question Cabron...in my experience a tiller on a boat that size should be super light in nearly all conditions. I haven't sailed a Cole 23, but reaching back into dim dark memories my old 26' tiller boat with an offset outboard was light and easy to helm in nearly all conditions, under motor, even being towed/skull dragged by a stink boat at speed. If you were over canvassed to buggery that's a different story, but I must admit, the weight you are describing seems completely at odds with what I would expect.
It's not an aftermarket tiller with a silly amount of offset or anything?



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"Cole 23 brought sight unseen..... how bad could it be?.." started by Cabron