Forums > Kitesurfing   Western Australia

The Pond - machinery on point

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Created by craggers 4 months ago, 18 May 2021
craggers
WA, 472 posts
18 May 2021 9:40AM
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I assume this is the dredging of the boat channel?

Kraut
WA, 512 posts
18 May 2021 12:23PM
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Yes. Except this time they are chopping off the nose of Tern island instead of using a boat to dredge. So essentially our pond got smaller. So everyone stay clear

Emanjay
WA, 115 posts
19 May 2021 8:53AM
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This is a total waste, good money after bad. Even my 5 year old knows digging a hole on the beach will not make more than a very temporary change. I haven't kept count, but we must be approaching $2 million worth of earthworks in the past few years scratching around on this bird breeding ground-for what???

Kraut
WA, 512 posts
20 May 2021 10:12AM
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Emanjay said..
This is a total waste, good money after bad. Even my 5 year old knows digging a hole on the beach will not make more than a very temporary change. I haven't kept count, but we must be approaching $2 million worth of earthworks in the past few years scratching around on this bird breeding ground-for what???



Agree mate, as useless as the yearly boat dredging sessions. I recon someone will be getting a kickback perhaps. Or it's the council's contribution to post-COVID economical recovery. But it does bugger all to the boat channel in terms of sustainably ensuring its existence. People have been rightly so questioning the location of the boat ramp for years. But hey, WA = wait a while, give us another ten years to explore the option to move it...

SimonM
WA, 113 posts
21 May 2021 6:47AM
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If you are a local pond user then you'd appreciate the earthworks. The natural process at play is for the pond to close off and turn into a stinking algae ridden natural lake, then a swamp. If U want an example think augusta. $2M is pretty good value for the thousands of people that use the shelter of pond for all sorts of activities over many years. It's not just about boaties. Wherever you build infrastructure in the shifting sands of safety bay you will need to fight nature so it's nonsense to say U can just relocate it.

Kraut
WA, 512 posts
21 May 2021 3:33PM
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SimonM said..
If you are a local pond user then you'd appreciate the earthworks. The natural process at play is for the pond to close off and turn into a stinking algae ridden natural lake, then a swamp. If U want an example think augusta. $2M is pretty good value for the thousands of people that use the shelter of pond for all sorts of activities over many years. It's not just about boaties. Wherever you build infrastructure in the shifting sands of safety bay you will need to fight nature so it's nonsense to say U can just relocate it.



Your view suggests you are closest to this spot. But do you assume (or know) they are targeting the pond as such i.e. triggering more water flow, as opposed to simply trying to re-establish the boat channel? I had the impression it us purely the latter they are targeting. Also, wasn't it the human intervention cutting the boat channel open, which lead to the rear end of the Augusta opening clot up, making it a stinky swamp?

Gazuki
WA, 1306 posts
21 May 2021 4:43PM
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I heard that the local shire realised the huge benefit that kiteboarders brought to the community and decided to build the most manicured sand bank in the world.

SimonM
WA, 113 posts
22 May 2021 7:50AM
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Apparently there was sik kitesurfing in 1839... Have a look at John Sep Roe map of the original area nla.gov.au/nla.obj-232535235/view
Note the area is all swamps and lake

As for Augusta the satellite image in gmaps tells the story there.. note inland swamps and lakes. But as an example I was meaning more the algae and stink factor of stagnation.


I think the channel at the pond is important to suddenly reduce sideshore water velocities and to trigger sand to settle . Then U just need to dig that bit out now and again. It prevents sand being carried into the pond or on to the weedbank. The sand comes from the south down the sand bank

goofy
WA, 143 posts
22 May 2021 11:42AM
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The boat ramp was there well before the pond formed and council action to keep a channel open is probably the only thing stopping the pond closing.

Not enough room at either Donald st or Carlisle st ramps to support closing Bent st ramp.

The council is in a awkward position as there are conservation restrictions on Tern island and they can't move the boat ramp, I reckon they are doing a good job in a difficult situation.

Emanjay
WA, 115 posts
22 May 2021 4:10PM
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goofy said..
The boat ramp was there well before the pond formed and council action to keep a channel open is probably the only thing stopping the pond closing.

Not enough room at either Donald st or Carlisle st ramps to support closing Bent st ramp.

The council is in a awkward position as there are conservation restrictions on Tern island and they can't move the boat ramp, I reckon they are doing a good job in a difficult situation.


Respectfully disagree. Say we've spent $1.5 million so far digging holes in the sand, dumping it all over warnbro beach-then scooping it back up again.....How much extra capacity could be built into either existing ramps, or even a completely new ramp to the east? Add to that the spending in the coming years

goofy
WA, 143 posts
22 May 2021 5:24PM
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Emanjay said..


goofy said..
The boat ramp was there well before the pond formed and council action to keep a channel open is probably the only thing stopping the pond closing.

Not enough room at either Donald st or Carlisle st ramps to support closing Bent st ramp.

The council is in a awkward position as there are conservation restrictions on Tern island and they can't move the boat ramp, I reckon they are doing a good job in a difficult situation.




Respectfully disagree. Say we've spent $1.5 million so far digging holes in the sand, dumping it all over warnbro beach-then scooping it back up again.....How much extra capacity could be built into either existing ramps, or even a completely new ramp to the east? Add to that the spending in the coming years




Don't forget Donald and Carlisle are sand ramps which would require massive works to bring up to the Bent st level.

Also Bent street ramp would have to be removed if there's no channel at $$, and if the pond closes up council will still need to maintain it and who knows what that would cost??

I doubt Donald st would be realistic as if the pond closes and the sand flow continues who knows this could also be an issue in 10-20 years time.

I personally think the dredging at the Dawesville cut has a lot to do with this.

Emanjay
WA, 115 posts
23 May 2021 10:26AM
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goofy said..

Emanjay said..



goofy said..
The boat ramp was there well before the pond formed and council action to keep a channel open is probably the only thing stopping the pond closing.

Not enough room at either Donald st or Carlisle st ramps to support closing Bent st ramp.

The council is in a awkward position as there are conservation restrictions on Tern island and they can't move the boat ramp, I reckon they are doing a good job in a difficult situation.





Respectfully disagree. Say we've spent $1.5 million so far digging holes in the sand, dumping it all over warnbro beach-then scooping it back up again.....How much extra capacity could be built into either existing ramps, or even a completely new ramp to the east? Add to that the spending in the coming years





Don't forget Donald and Carlisle are sand ramps which would require massive works to bring up to the Bent st level.

Also Bent street ramp would have to be removed if there's no channel at $$, and if the pond closes up council will still need to maintain it and who knows what that would cost??

I doubt Donald st would be realistic as if the pond closes and the sand flow continues who knows this could also be an issue in 10-20 years time.

I personally think the dredging at the Dawesville cut has a lot to do with this.


Not saying I could do it but how hard can it be to put some concrete down? Especially if you're a council. I don't think you would remove the bent street ramp, it may remain useful for smaller boats indefinitely.

I agree, we've likely screwed the natural movement of sand, but I'd put my money on the Garden Island causeway.

I don't know why the Port Kennedy ramp isn't more popular, deep water, huge carpark.

I don't own a powerboat, I'm just a local resident/kiter (rate payer), but watching the dumpster pile of money they've burnt on this over the past few years is irritating. My favourite being the giant channel markers they put in that created obvious hazard to kiters, likely costed many 10's of thousands of $ only to blow over and be removed...I'd have liked one for a garden ornament.

goofy
WA, 143 posts
23 May 2021 1:26PM
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Emanjay said..



goofy said..




Emanjay said..






goofy said..
The boat ramp was there well before the pond formed and council action to keep a channel open is probably the only thing stopping the pond closing.

Not enough room at either Donald st or Carlisle st ramps to support closing Bent st ramp.

The council is in a awkward position as there are conservation restrictions on Tern island and they can't move the boat ramp, I reckon they are doing a good job in a difficult situation.








Respectfully disagree. Say we've spent $1.5 million so far digging holes in the sand, dumping it all over warnbro beach-then scooping it back up again.....How much extra capacity could be built into either existing ramps, or even a completely new ramp to the east? Add to that the spending in the coming years








Don't forget Donald and Carlisle are sand ramps which would require massive works to bring up to the Bent st level.

Also Bent street ramp would have to be removed if there's no channel at $$, and if the pond closes up council will still need to maintain it and who knows what that would cost??

I doubt Donald st would be realistic as if the pond closes and the sand flow continues who knows this could also be an issue in 10-20 years time.

I personally think the dredging at the Dawesville cut has a lot to do with this.





Not saying I could do it but how hard can it be to put some concrete down? Especially if you're a council. I don't think you would remove the bent street ramp, it may remain useful for smaller boats indefinitely.

I agree, we've likely screwed the natural movement of sand, but I'd put my money on the Garden Island causeway.

I don't know why the Port Kennedy ramp isn't more popular, deep water, huge carpark.

I don't own a powerboat, I'm just a local resident/kiter (rate payer), but watching the dumpster pile of money they've burnt on this over the past few years is irritating. My favourite being the giant channel markers they put in that created obvious hazard to kiters, likely costed many 10's of thousands of $ only to blow over and be removed...I'd have liked one for a garden ornament.




Your correct about putting down some concrete isn't too difficult but these days they will need enviro reports, engineering reports, liability reports and funding approval etc before the concrete is even thought of getting mixed.

The new penguin island jetty cost close to 3mil from memory, and you would need something similar again plus ramps and carpark etc.

I still think maintaining whats already there is better that starting again and possibly end up with a whole new set of unforeseen issues. Dredging/maintaining boating channels is quite normal, they do it regularly in Freo harbour, Cockburn sound and at the Dawesville cut.

Maybe user pays? Parking meters at Bent st and around the pond (exception stickers for local ratepayers as we're already paying)

PS I don't boat either just would like the pond to stay open.

stillsendingit
WA, 9 posts
26 May 2021 12:28PM
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does anyone know which year after 1982ish the island actually became a spit?
continuously digging out the sand build up is a short tern solution to avoid planning and adapting to a changing coastal environment.
boaties and homeowners like to know their lines on the map are going to stay put even if they built on sand.
if it keeps the pond open for longer thats ok with me

Emanjay
WA, 115 posts
27 May 2021 9:55AM
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Forgiveness easier than permission! Get some fellas at the council to sketch up a plan and just bang in a ramp, anyone asks who did it...shrug your shoulders. Job done.

Subsonic
WA, 2423 posts
29 May 2021 8:17AM
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stillsendingit said..
does anyone know which year after 1982ish the island actually became a spit?
continuously digging out the sand build up is a short tern solution to avoid planning and adapting to a changing coastal environment.
boaties and homeowners like to know their lines on the map are going to stay put even if they built on sand.
if it keeps the pond open for longer thats ok with me



Sometime after 1997, but probably before 2000 was when it finally closed up.

i've heard previously that its formed the way it has because of intentionally dumped spoil in safety bay which has allowed the sand to accumulate in the right spot to form it (they knew it would form land mass) rather than just forming another point straight out from the beach. Not sure what the logic was behind it though. I do remember seeing the shallow lump out in the bay when i was a kid.

daniel_y
WA, 91 posts
30 May 2021 6:06PM
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If you look on Google Earth you can see satellite images of the pond back to 1985 by changing the satellite image date (top left corner of the image). It's pretty interesting how the shape and size of the spit has changed in the past decade or so.



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Forums > Kitesurfing   Western Australia


"The Pond - machinery on point" started by craggers