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Duotone's answer to Allula?

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Created by shi thouse 1 month ago, 15 Sep 2020
shi thouse
WA, 945 posts
15 Sep 2020 8:50PM
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Pentatex.

dafish
NSW, 1492 posts
16 Sep 2020 8:10AM
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Looks like top shelf brands are stepping up this year with new tech, and that is a good thing. I wonder what Ozone's response will be. They have been right up there with the best so I imagine we would see something interesting from their designers sometime soon? Terry Mctool?

billygreen
79 posts
16 Sep 2020 6:24AM
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dafish said..
Looks like top shelf brands are stepping up this year with new tech, and that is a good thing. I wonder what Ozone's response will be. They have been right up there with the best so I imagine we would see something interesting from their designers sometime soon? Terry Mctool?


probably using single ripstop and replaced dacron with something light but not durable

with the Penta TX material, what happens if you snag a stick or something on the beach? will kite repairers have stock of this material for repairs or will it be repaired using dacron?

Ozone Kites Aus
NSW, 840 posts
Site Sponsor
16 Sep 2020 11:52AM
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dafish said..
Looks like top shelf brands are stepping up this year with new tech, and that is a good thing. I wonder what Ozone's response will be. They have been right up there with the best so I imagine we would see something interesting from their designers sometime soon? Terry Mctool?





Ozone has some new materials coming on the Enduro V3 due on shelves at the end of this month. They have decided to use a Teijin triple ripstop but have declined to give it a fancy name or to try and make it sound like they invented it. They also have a new leading edge material and new high flow one pump system. The materials were selected because they offer benefits in durability and did not weigh more than existing materials, and had also undergone at least 12 months of testing in harsh school conditions in hot and windy places like Egypt.
Ozone has been working with Aluula, but at this stage supply of the cloth is limited and Ozone also want to see how the material will last, as well as how much modification within the factory is required to actually make a kite from the stuff.

Another interesting thing I'm seeing as a long term industry member is that certain leading brands are not innovators and have shown a real tendency to "invent" claims/names/models in order to steal the limelight away from brands like Ocean Rodeo that are pioneering a new material and the idea that lower weight kites perform better. This is pretty standard behavior in business though and there are examples of similar tactics everywhere you look.
The reality though is that brands with a strong aeronautical background like Ozone have known since day one that lighter flies better. I'm fairly certain once we can see some real world published weights of "new lightweight" kites that they are in fact no lighter than existing kites from Ozone and some other manufacturers. And one potential downside is that no-one knows just yet how durable these new light weight cloths are? I'm fairly sure "pay shiploads" for a weaker or less durable product will not win customers.

I'm pretty confident about Aluula because I've flown the Roam and Flite and you can definitely feel a benefit from the properties of the Aluula. What I am finding a complete mystery is some of the claims from some riders about extended wind range, that was certainly not my experience and I flew a 10M Roam Aluula back to back over a week with a 10M Reo V5 and with the Flite I directly compared it to an Alpha 14m, Zephyr, and Enduro V2 14m. After flying them we were confident enough to put them into our range and was sure many riders who have the financial means would definitely feel the difference and be willing to pay the premium for these kites.

dafish
NSW, 1492 posts
16 Sep 2020 2:10PM
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Ozone Kites Aus said..

dafish said..
Looks like top shelf brands are stepping up this year with new tech, and that is a good thing. I wonder what Ozone's response will be. They have been right up there with the best so I imagine we would see something interesting from their designers sometime soon? Terry Mctool?





Ozone has some new materials coming on the Enduro V3 due on shelves at the end of this month. They have decided to use a Teijin triple ripstop but have declined to give it a fancy name or to try and make it sound like they invented it. They also have a new leading edge material and new high flow one pump system. The materials were selected because they offer benefits in durability and did not weigh more than existing materials, and had also undergone at least 12 months of testing in harsh school conditions in hot and windy places like Egypt.
Ozone has been working with Aluula, but at this stage supply of the cloth is limited and Ozone also want to see how the material will last, as well as how much modification within the factory is required to actually make a kite from the stuff.

Another interesting thing I'm seeing as a long term industry member is that certain leading brands are not innovators and have shown a real tendency to "invent" claims/names/models in order to steal the limelight away from brands like Ocean Rodeo that are pioneering a new material and the idea that lower weight kites perform better. This is pretty standard behavior in business though and there are examples of similar tactics everywhere you look.
The reality though is that brands with a strong aeronautical background like Ozone have known since day one that lighter flies better. I'm fairly certain once we can see some real world published weights of "new lightweight" kites that they are in fact no lighter than existing kites from Ozone and some other manufacturers. And a potential downside is that no-one knows yet is just how durable these new light weight cloths are? I'm fairly sure "pay shiploads" for a weaker product will not win customers.

I'm pretty confident about Aluula because I've flown the Roam and Flite and you can definitely feel a benefit from the properties of the Aluula. What I am finding a complete mystery is some of the claims from some riders about extended wind range, that was certainly not my experience and I flew a 10M Roam Aluula back to back over a week with a 10M Reo V5 and with the Flite I directly compared it to an Alpha 14m, Zephyr, and Enduro V2 14m. After flying them we were confident enough to put them into our range and was sure many riders who have the financial means would definitely feel the difference and be willing to pay the premium for these kites.


Thanks for the analysis Steve. Bring on a covid free summer!

BrisKites
QLD, 1277 posts
16 Sep 2020 4:10PM
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Ozone Kites Aus said..






Another interesting thing I'm seeing as a long term industry member is that certain leading brands are not innovators and have shown a real tendency to "invent" claims/names/models in order to steal the limelight away from brands like Ocean Rodeo that are pioneering a new material and the idea that lower weight kites perform better. This is pretty standard behavior in business though and there are examples of similar tactics everywhere you look.




Help me out here Steve. Are you saying OR developed Alula? I was of the understanding they were a stand alone entity.

BrisKites
QLD, 1277 posts
16 Sep 2020 4:24PM
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Here is the video with Duotones explanation of the Penta TX

EastCC
QLD, 328 posts
16 Sep 2020 5:00PM
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BrisKites said..








Ozone Kites Aus said..









Another interesting thing I'm seeing as a long term industry member is that certain leading brands are not innovators and have shown a real tendency to "invent" claims/names/models in order to steal the limelight away from brands like Ocean Rodeo that are pioneering a new material and the idea that lower weight kites perform better. This is pretty standard behavior in business though and there are examples of similar tactics everywhere you look.







Help me out here Steve. Are you saying OR developed Alula? I was of the understanding they were a stand alone entity.




Aluula is a different company now - yes. With the same directors / shareholders as Ocean Rodeo.
The Aluula material initially started at Ocean Rodeo with their kite designers and the chemical engineer many years ago.

Richard talks about it in this podcast, quite interesting -

kitesurf365.com/aluula-composites-episode-135

BrisKites
QLD, 1277 posts
16 Sep 2020 6:14PM
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Thanks, I think to jump up and say that "certain leading brands are not innovators and have shown a real tendency to "invent" claims/names/models in order to steal the limelight away from brands" which is clearly aimed at Duotone here is a bit unfair.
Firstly I'm of the understanding Duotone have been working on Penta TX kites for well over 18 months now.
Secondly this cloth isn't aimed at Alula as kites produced from it are much less expensive.

kiteguy
NSW, 10 posts
16 Sep 2020 7:21PM
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From someone who has been following the development of Aluula and their variety of testing with comparative weights and a variety of strength destructive testing I'm super impressed with aluula. Feels like genuine innovation.
When I watched the sls release video, I was hit with a stank of marketing desperation trying to weigh in and compare to the buzz around aluula.
Sls. Stronger, lighter, superior. Is that really the best the market team could come up with.!?
I'm sure neos are great kites, but this feels like a thinly veiled attempt from Duotone to ride on the material innovation train.

BrisKites
QLD, 1277 posts
16 Sep 2020 8:22PM
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Except it was Duotone that started the "material innovation train". While all other brands were still on single ripstop Teijin and lower quality cloths from Chinese and Korean factories DT jumped from the blocks with D2.

Also as I mentioned, it's not like they just conjured up the Penta TX cloth in the last couple of months. I think they were actually thinking of releasing it last season. This would mean it's been in the works for over 2 years.

Sheps
WA, 5 posts
16 Sep 2020 6:44PM
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Bit over the top the promo video about the Penta TX. "Unseen before levels of performance" due I guess to stiffer frame and lighter material. Perhaps they haven't noticed the Roam Aluula. Saying Penta TX is 15% lighter than Dacron doesn't tell us how much the Neo SLS weighs. I bet it won't match the 10m Roam Aluula's 1.9kgs and doubt it will be as stiff and probably not as responsive.
On another matter, today I tried sharing the stoke of my new Aluula Roam with my local kite repairer and he told me he would never buy an Aluula kite because he "won't be able to repair them" and "you need special needles and stuff to do the work." I know aluula is significantly stronger is than Dacron but I would have thought a reasonable industrial sewing machine would be up to the task. Am I missing something? I did hear that some kite repairers are already stocking aluula so I'm thinking must be repairable.

Adam'KiteRepair
NSW, 327 posts
17 Sep 2020 12:19PM
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Sheps said..
Bit over the top the promo video about the Penta TX. "Unseen before levels of performance" due I guess to stiffer frame and lighter material. Perhaps they haven't noticed the Roam Aluula. Saying Penta TX is 15% lighter than Dacron doesn't tell us how much the Neo SLS weighs. I bet it won't match the 10m Roam Aluula's 1.9kgs and doubt it will be as stiff and probably not as responsive.
On another matter, today I tried sharing the stoke of my new Aluula Roam with my local kite repairer and he told me he would never buy an Aluula kite because he "won't be able to repair them" and "you need special needles and stuff to do the work." I know aluula is significantly stronger is than Dacron but I would have thought a reasonable industrial sewing machine would be up to the task. Am I missing something? I did hear that some kite repairers are already stocking aluula so I'm thinking must be repairable.


Ill just lift my quote from the other thread.






HI GUYS,
been awhile, very busy with family and new kite shop, that and every time I stick my head in here i get it bitten off. Lol.

There is one kite repairer in Aus stocking Aluula meterial. Thats me. Im Ocean Rodeos prefered repairer, as I am to a few other brands. They have spent a bit of time with me about design and meterial requirements, and I stock aluula meterial. Enough blowing smoke.

ALUULA is a special meterial, and there are some special requirements when working with it. There is no need for special needles, infact Dacron is alot harder on needles than Aluula. Dacron is a very tight weave, aluula is not. For arguments sake, you can even sew dacron to it. Thats ok! It wouldnt look so great but it would work fine.

I wont go into great detail about what must be done to sew it on here. A: someone will disagree/argue, B: I just dont have the time.

IF another repairer needs to know, Im only a phone call away, Ryan and I have bounced professional opinions off eachother in the past, and Im more than happy to have that conversation via phone.

IAN in regards to bladders, they are still PU. Perfectly normal to repair. I wont stipulate when the aluula brand bladders will be introduced because I dont represent for Ocean Rodeo/Aluula, any more then just being a dealer.

For anyone wondering, I froth these kites but Im an Ozone Pimp first and for most. Hate all you want. Its a strange world, Ill keep doing me.

Apologies for any typos, mis spellings.

GOOD WINDS,
Adam




17 Sep 2020 12:56PM
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Sheps said..
Saying Penta TX is 15% lighter than Dacron doesn't tell us how much the Neo SLS weighs. I bet it won't match the 10m Roam Aluula's 1.9kgs and doubt it will be as stiff and probably not as responsive.



The overall weight of the kite is 15% lighter using the Penta TX. ~500grams on a Neo, I think it's 540g saving on a 12m which was about 3.7kg or something last year?

Weight reduction has been the big focus across the industry the last couple of years and they've been messing with new materials for quite a while.

From what I understand there are a lot of materials they've trialled and are still experimenting with, I'm expecting something big (Aluula or similar) in the next few years for sure, but many of these materials are 3-5x the cost of D2 which is obviously going to majorly impact the price of kites, as well as requiring significant redesigns for different material properties.

After looking into cost/benefit they went with a material that offers significant improvement without a huge cost increase rather than going all out with something like the Aluula.

I'm sure they could have rushed out something to try and compete directly with the Aluula etc. but I don't think that's really what they're going for with the SLS. This has been in the works for a while, weight reduction has been all the rage for a few years now.

billygreen
79 posts
17 Sep 2020 12:23PM
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kiteguy said..
From someone who has been following the development of Aluula and their variety of testing with comparative weights and a variety of strength destructive testing I'm super impressed with aluula. Feels like genuine innovation.
When I watched the sls release video, I was hit with a stank of marketing desperation trying to weigh in and compare to the buzz around aluula.
Sls. Stronger, lighter, superior. Is that really the best the market team could come up with.!?
I'm sure neos are great kites, but this feels like a thinly veiled attempt from Duotone to ride on the material innovation train.


The numbers don't lie guy..the new material is lighter than what is commonly used (dacron). SLS seems like it will be the 'pro' range to come from duotone (neo still avilable in classic construction). The name transcends the kite line to the surfboard line where it is used to distinguish the double sandwich bamboo boards (stiff, heavy, durable) from the SLS range (formerly known as the 'pro' range of boards).

All large companies target continuous improvement and i doubt duotone is any different through their pursuit of lighter materials. to label SLS as a marketing attempt to ride the innovation train is naive. That would suggest that either they would develop a new material and not market it, or Ocean Rodeo are the only company utilising next generation materials and that they have an exclusive right to do so.

I personally dont think SLS is any worse for marketing hype than aluula.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to differentiate between truth, hype and mud-slinging. Most of the commenters in this thread have some sort of brand affiliation and their perspective is therefore skewed (whether they realise that or not). Kiting has ruined itself with too many folks seeking to be unofficial brand ambassadors through shop mates to get kites at low cost. In turn they have a motivation and tendency to spread misleading information.

Sheps
WA, 5 posts
17 Sep 2020 1:01PM
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Fair comment. Would be good to see real numbers instead of hype in all advertising. Anyway, at the end of the day it's good that we are seeing real positive changes in kite performance from lighter, stronger and stiffer kites. I bought my Aluula online and paid full price by the way. Perhaps over eager because I like new tech and was prepared to take the risk. After flying the kite i decided to buy another one because the kite more than met my expectations. The Neo SLS will undoubtably be an awesome kite and worth the extra comparatively small extra investment. Will be interesting to see how much people are prepared to pay for extra performance and where the manufacturers position themselves in the next few years. Perhaps light weight materials will get cheaper and become the new norm. Hoping so as I can't see myself going back to Dacron

kiteguy
NSW, 10 posts
17 Sep 2020 4:36PM
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billygreen said..


kiteguy said..
From someone who has been following the development of Aluula and their variety of testing with comparative weights and a variety of strength destructive testing I'm super impressed with aluula. Feels like genuine innovation.
When I watched the sls release video, I was hit with a stank of marketing desperation trying to weigh in and compare to the buzz around aluula.
Sls. Stronger, lighter, superior. Is that really the best the market team could come up with.!?
I'm sure neos are great kites, but this feels like a thinly veiled attempt from Duotone to ride on the material innovation train.




The numbers don't lie guy..the new material is lighter than what is commonly used (dacron). SLS seems like it will be the 'pro' range to come from duotone (neo still avilable in classic construction). The name transcends the kite line to the surfboard line where it is used to distinguish the double sandwich bamboo boards (stiff, heavy, durable) from the SLS range (formerly known as the 'pro' range of boards).

All large companies target continuous improvement and i doubt duotone is any different through their pursuit of lighter materials. to label SLS as a marketing attempt to ride the innovation train is naive. That would suggest that either they would develop a new material and not market it, or Ocean Rodeo are the only company utilising next generation materials and that they have an exclusive right to do so.

I personally dont think SLS is any worse for marketing hype than aluula.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to differentiate between truth, hype and mud-slinging. Most of the commenters in this thread have some sort of brand affiliation and their perspective is therefore skewed (whether they realise that or not). Kiting has ruined itself with too many folks seeking to be unofficial brand ambassadors through shop mates to get kites at low cost. In turn they have a motivation and tendency to spread misleading information.



You are right Billy the numbers don't lie. 15% is 15% no doubt.

I wrote my comment, off the back of watching their above promo vid, which is still (like nearly any promo) pretty over the top. Ocean Rodeo Aluula promos are probably the same.

Perhaps my reaction is harsh, maybe it's more the case of being 2nd to the market with a seemingly inferior product but still making the big claim of superior product (not trying to **** on SLS but numbers don't lie, weight drops of approx50% aluula v's approx15% SLS, ) just feels like it's a catchup move to rescue a portion of their market they fear losing. Which perhaps it isn't, as the development times possibly are similar to Aluula. ??
Regarding your comment on sls be a 'pro' range thing. Is that an acronym Duotone marketing already use, sorry I'm not sure.
But still, Stronger, Lighter, Superior. You don't find a collection of buzz words dropped into an acronym a bit of a wank.? It's pure marketing hype from my point of view. This is something that erks in all product marketing not just kites.

Product names like Penta TX or Aluula, are product names. They aren't hype base buzz words, they are the product names. I think there is a different between a product name and hype based buzz words.

I couldn't agree more with you last paragraph, differentiating between truth and hype. This is genercially relatable across any product type or even service. Everyone is shouting and spruiking so hard, their claims often outweigh what is actually being delivered. This is the crux of my point and my initial reaction.

17 Sep 2020 6:17PM
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We did a little video on the new SLS with some info and a comparison with the 2020, only had it here a few days but managed to get some decent days on it.


weebitbreezy
482 posts
17 Sep 2020 8:29PM
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Duotone using marketing to piggy back on the Aluula boat - Hahahahahahahahaha! Ocean Rodeo have a history of early promotion of products to attempt to make it feel like they were early to market.

Ocean Rodeo "leak" Aluula August 2019 and only begin to deliver April 2019. Duotone announce Penta Tx September 2020, in shops by the end of the month. Which one of these companies is playing the marketing game? Same with the Ocean Rodeo shift bar. Announced on the back of the Duotone (North then) Click bar. Didn't make it out to the shops for 9 months.

Credit to Ocean Rodeo for making a really good product but lets not kid ourselves that duotone have been sneaky and underhanded here. I reckon they could have announced the SLS range months ago (maybe even last year) and really stolen the marketing thunder. If anything I suspect they may actually have been holding back to see how the interest was with Aluula to see whether people would pay more for a light weight version

EastCC
QLD, 328 posts
17 Sep 2020 10:55PM
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BrisKites said..
Secondly this cloth isn't aimed at Alula as kites produced from it are much less expensive.


Both products definitely have the same target market regardless of the difference in pricing.


Select to expand quote
billygreen said..
The numbers don't lie guy..the new material is lighter than what is commonly used (dacron).


You're right Billy, numbers don't lie.
Kite weights:

Ozone Reo V5 10m - 2.81kg (Teijin Dacron)
Ocean Rodeo Roam 10m - 2.85kg (Challenge D2.9 RS Dacron)
Core Section 3 10m - 3.13kg (Exotex Ultra Rigid Dacron)
Airush Session 10m - 3.2kg (Dacron)
RRD Religion Y25 10.5m - 3.26kg (Dacron)
Duotone Neo 10m - 3.29kg (Dacron)

Duotone Neo SLS - 2.8kg??? - unlisted (Penta TX)

Roam and Reo have been down near 2.8kg, 14.5% lighter than the Neo, for nearly 2 years.
The Neo is actually the heaviest wave kite on the market, so it's really not a revelation in design for overall kite weight reduction.

The difference however will lie in the rigidity of the frame, perhaps the LE diameter is different / smaller due to the extra stiffness in the material.

Anyways it all comes down to what you like in a kite, so demo what you can, find what you like, buy in your budget, and you'll be happy.

New materials - interesting times....

billygreen
79 posts
18 Sep 2020 7:10AM
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Adventure Sports Noosa said..
We did a little video on the new SLS with some info and a comparison with the 2020, only had it here a few days but managed to get some decent days on it.



just take my money already
Select to expand quote
EastCC said..

BrisKites said..
Secondly this cloth isn't aimed at Alula as kites produced from it are much less expensive.



Both products definitely have the same target market regardless of the difference in pricing.



billygreen said..
The numbers don't lie guy..the new material is lighter than what is commonly used (dacron).



You're right Billy, numbers don't lie.
Kite weights:

Ozone Reo V5 10m - 2.81kg (Teijin Dacron)
Ocean Rodeo Roam 10m - 2.85kg (Challenge D2.9 RS Dacron)
Core Section 3 10m - 3.13kg (Exotex Ultra Rigid Dacron)
Airush Session 10m - 3.2kg (Dacron)
RRD Religion Y25 10.5m - 3.26kg (Dacron)
Duotone Neo 10m - 3.29kg (Dacron)

Duotone Neo SLS - 2.8kg??? - unlisted (Penta TX)

Roam and Reo have been down near 2.8kg, 14.5% lighter than the Neo, for nearly 2 years.
The Neo is actually the heaviest wave kite on the market, so it's really not a revelation in design for overall kite weight reduction.

The difference however will lie in the rigidity of the frame, perhaps the LE diameter is different / smaller due to the extra stiffness in the material.

Anyways it all comes down to what you like in a kite, so demo what you can, find what you like, buy in your budget, and you'll be happy.

New materials - interesting times....


out of curiosity where does the other major player weight in at - the cab drifter?

Would be interesting to compare say 8m neo weight to 10m reo. I pay for all my own stuff and hunt out deals on gear but like the neos for their power and upwind allowing the rider to use 1-2m2 less than some other kites and on this basis it would be interesting to see that comparison

AndreC
WA, 487 posts
18 Sep 2020 2:02PM
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Theres been allot of good advancement around reducing weight and increasing strength. What will be interesting is how reducing weight affects power delivery. Obviously stability and drifting is improved with the lighter weight. But I did notice when flying the 10m Alulla Roam that the power delivery is a bit different. The steering is certainly nice for a big kite.
Weight will be important I thing be it wont be the be all end all, I think the overall shape/style of kite will still weigh in on this conversation. I have 10m SLS NEO to try....might even talk to Bonster with his 10 Alulla to come down and we can do a comparison review like cheech and chong.

Gateman
QLD, 379 posts
18 Sep 2020 8:29PM
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billygreen said..

Adventure Sports Noosa said..
We did a little video on the new SLS with some info and a comparison with the 2020, only had it here a few days but managed to get some decent days on it.




just take my money already

EastCC said..


BrisKites said..
Secondly this cloth isn't aimed at Alula as kites produced from it are much less expensive.




Both products definitely have the same target market regardless of the difference in pricing.




billygreen said..
The numbers don't lie guy..the new material is lighter than what is commonly used (dacron).




You're right Billy, numbers don't lie.
Kite weights:

Ozone Reo V5 10m - 2.81kg (Teijin Dacron)
Ocean Rodeo Roam 10m - 2.85kg (Challenge D2.9 RS Dacron)
Core Section 3 10m - 3.13kg (Exotex Ultra Rigid Dacron)
Airush Session 10m - 3.2kg (Dacron)
RRD Religion Y25 10.5m - 3.26kg (Dacron)
Duotone Neo 10m - 3.29kg (Dacron)

Duotone Neo SLS - 2.8kg??? - unlisted (Penta TX)

Roam and Reo have been down near 2.8kg, 14.5% lighter than the Neo, for nearly 2 years.
The Neo is actually the heaviest wave kite on the market, so it's really not a revelation in design for overall kite weight reduction.

The difference however will lie in the rigidity of the frame, perhaps the LE diameter is different / smaller due to the extra stiffness in the material.

Anyways it all comes down to what you like in a kite, so demo what you can, find what you like, buy in your budget, and you'll be happy.

New materials - interesting times....



out of curiosity where does the other major player weight in at - the cab drifter?

Would be interesting to compare say 8m neo weight to 10m reo. I pay for all my own stuff and hunt out deals on gear but like the neos for their power and upwind allowing the rider to use 1-2m2 less than some other kites and on this basis it would be interesting to see that comparison


Out of curiosity I just weighed my 10m Cab Moto. While I don't have a super accurate scale, I used a digital bathroom scale and alternately weighed myself holding the kite and myself without the kite five times each.
Four times the difference was 3.0 kg and once was 3.1kg. Don't have a 10m Drifter to weigh.

Gateman
QLD, 379 posts
18 Sep 2020 8:43PM
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AndreC said..
Theres been allot of good advancement around reducing weight and increasing strength. What will be interesting is how reducing weight affects power delivery. Obviously stability and drifting is improved with the lighter weight. But I did notice when flying the 10m Alulla Roam that the power delivery is a bit different. The steering is certainly nice for a big kite.
Weight will be important I thing be it wont be the be all end all, I think the overall shape/style of kite will still weigh in on this conversation. I have 10m SLS NEO to try....might even talk to Bonster with his 10 Alulla to come down and we can do a comparison review like cheech and chong.


I think apart from design and weight, frame rigidity of new materials will likely play an important part too. Just fly any kite with slightly less pressure for 20 minutes then go back to the beach, put more pressure in the LE & Struts and head out again, you can feel the difference in responsiveness. Duotone seem to be using a "flexi strut" design that helps kite shape in turning while still maintaining rigid LE. Not sure how it works but makes sense. For the record, I noticed the trailing edge of the two outer struts on the Moto are not fixed but can slide about 2cm left and right, might be similar to the Neo "flexi strut"?

bonster
WA, 176 posts
18 Sep 2020 7:13PM
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AndreC said..
Theres been allot of good advancement around reducing weight and increasing strength. What will be interesting is how reducing weight affects power delivery. Obviously stability and drifting is improved with the lighter weight. But I did notice when flying the 10m Alulla Roam that the power delivery is a bit different. The steering is certainly nice for a big kite.
Weight will be important I thing be it wont be the be all end all, I think the overall shape/style of kite will still weigh in on this conversation. I have 10m SLS NEO to try....might even talk to Bonster with his 10 Alulla to come down and we can do a comparison review like cheech and chong.



To answer your question AndreC the size of the kite affects the power output. The lightness just means you can throw that big girl around, like you're in "Dancing with the Stars," And generate even more power. This will allow you to enjoy a big kite for those fluffy days.
The rigidity reduces the twists on turns, that delays the turning speed, lightness making it faster through the air adds to the response, which I found it to be useful when you're maxed out and you need to trim down to 95%. Having that response at 80-95% trim with the bar 3/4 way up was pretty unusual, was definitely why I felt comfortable at 23knots.
Lightweight, rigid and durable kite..To me is the answer! I know this post is titled Duotones answer to Aluula, but as mentioned in earlier posts numbers don't lie. So put up the weight online and have the materials verse each other on durability and weight tests. That way we can properly see if it does compare. Otherwise my thoughts is that Duotones has finally caught up with other under marketed brands. At best, they are equal weight to a standard Dacron OR Roam.
We'll see I'm looking forward to giving it a go. Probably the green one, I Copt a lot of sh#8t with my last pink kite.

Ozone Kites Aus
NSW, 840 posts
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19 Sep 2020 10:31AM
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AndreC said..
Theres been allot of good advancement around reducing weight and increasing strength. What will be interesting is how reducing weight affects power delivery. Obviously stability and drifting is improved with the lighter weight. But I did notice when flying the 10m Alulla Roam that the power delivery is a bit different. The steering is certainly nice for a big kite.
Weight will be important I thing be it wont be the be all end all, I think the overall shape/style of kite will still weigh in on this conversation. I have 10m SLS NEO to try....might even talk to Bonster with his 10 Alulla to come down and we can do a comparison review like cheech and chong.


Please don't worry about the review just do some Cheech and Chong and see if you can find Dave?



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"Duotone's answer to Allula?" started by shi thouse