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Axis Foil Stoke!!

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Created by eppo > 9 months ago, 8 Nov 2018
Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
23 Mar 2020 12:12PM
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drsurf said..

Alysum said..
What foil board are most of you using with Axis ?

I'm riding a SS DW 4"6 which is ok, but the track is too far forward, so my front foot is in front of all strap holes (I don't use straps though but it would be nice to be able to put a half strap).

Don't think I've ever seen anyone with an Axis Kink or Tray board, would be keen to hear some opinions on something a little shorter than my 4"6, a little lighter, floaty enough and some nose rocker for those oops touchdowns (surf and flat water kite only).



Hi Alysum.
I've been using the 110cm Axis Tray for a while now and have already sold some as well. I have one 125cm model left in stock until the next shipment.
I'm 65kg and mainly use Flysurfer Peak4 kites with a surf foil such as the Moses 679 pictured below and I'm very happy with the Tray. It's very light but well constructed with plenty of footstrap positions if required. Foil tracks are set right back in the board making it great for large surf foils. I previously had an Axis MV125 which I also enjoyed and have a couple of these for sale with a good discount. Coming from a board 15cm longer than the Tray made no difference with regard to touchdowns as the Tray has a wide nose and bounces back easily if you whack the back of a wave. The width makes it easy to get going in light winds where you may need to build up some speed with the board to get foiling. Turning is great with such a light board as the swing weight is so little you feel really connected to the foil. Pumps well too.

I can't really fault the Tray, it's only a choice between sizes and the pricing is very good for a carbon board under 3kg. Love the Moses foils too. Have been using the Moses 633 surf foil but sold that and am waiting on a replacement of the same. In The meantime I'm using the Moses W679 which is smaller in surface area than the 633 but higher aspect. Feels faster and is very manoeuvrable on the 82cm mast. Didn't warm to it at first but it's now starting to grow on me now that I have adjusted it to myself and the board. Was out on this combo with a 5m Peak4 kite in 7 to 10 knots yesterday and had fun with no-one else out except for another kiter on a surf foil and 5m Peak4 And he was 20kg heavier than me! And being Australia Day, the beach had a lot of LEI kiters hungry to get going but needing more wind.
Picked up to 10 to 15knots later and everyone had fun. Makes for a great Australia Day, kiting at the local beach on a hot summer day, very patriotic



I weigh more than you and the 110 Tray was my first experience of anything that short or low volume.
Easy as to adapt. No difference in water start unless it was the absolute bottom end, and it workable needed a much bigger board then too.
I also have a Dwarfcraft 3'6" and I prefer its outline more - the Tray is wider nearer the nose and tended to touch the water mid-gybe, but all "tombstone" boards do for me. The DC and my Axis Surf are wider behind the front foot...
And... the rails are too far back

Super nice board, light and small, would be excellent for travel.

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
23 Mar 2020 4:07PM
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Hey Kamikuza I'm on the DC 4"6 and for some reason it feels quite unstable for axis S foils... The tray felt amazing stable in comparison.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
23 Mar 2020 6:48PM
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Alysum said..
Hey Kamikuza I'm on the DC 4"6 and for some reason it feels quite unstable for axis S foils... The tray felt amazing stable in comparison.


Unstable how? Straps or no? Foil mounted where?I need to get my foot behind the mast so I mount the plate forwards, some times all the way forward. Apparently the tracks are good as structural elements...so long as you don't mount the foil forwards

Tray is certainly wider at the front foot, so if you're used to riding with V straps at the front, the thinner DC might feel less stable as your foot needs to be closer to the centerline.

For some reason I forget, I had to ride for a while with my feet more centered rather than offset over the centerline, and now I'm used to a more centerline stance...

Puetz
NT, 2172 posts
23 Mar 2020 7:39PM
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Alysum said..
Hey Kamikuza I'm on the DC 4"6 and for some reason it feels quite unstable for axis S foils... The tray felt amazing stable in comparison.


... my guess is the Dwarf Craft is much heavier than the Tray so it has more swing weight,,,,, get a little wobble up and with the more weight behind it with more momentum, that little wobble feels like a big wobble.

Just a thought.

Robbie

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
23 Mar 2020 11:14PM
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No straps. All the way back on the tracks as my front foot is already in front of the holes for the forward straps.
It's a known issue that the slingshot tracks are too far forward for axis foils so I cannot imagine having it it all the way forward on the track!
EDIT: I can see on pics that the tracks are much further back on the DC 3"6

Not sure it's about the weight. It hardly ever feels stable.... Would love to hear from other DC users!

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
24 Mar 2020 5:39AM
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Alysum said..
No straps. All the way back on the tracks as my front foot is already in front of the holes for the forward straps.
It's a known issue that the slingshot tracks are too far forward for axis foils so I cannot imagine having it it all the way forward on the track!
EDIT: I can see on pics that the tracks are much further back on the DC 3"6

Not sure it's about the weight. It hardly ever feels stable.... Would love to hear from other DC users!


On the Ride 48 I stood with front heels close to rail, rear toes close to rail; so offset over the center line front and rear.

When I got the narrower tail board, I had to adjust my positions until I was pretty much centered. Felt horrible for a while but now I find that's my natural position.

I've pushed the plate on the DC back to give my front foot space away from the nose... Maybe an inch from the front.

Unstable how though?

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
26 Mar 2020 1:56PM
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Upgrade time!


Puetz
NT, 2172 posts
26 Mar 2020 2:25PM
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Kamikuza said..
Upgrade time!


... what size wings are they ??

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
26 Mar 2020 8:02PM
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Puetz said..... what size wings are they ??


660 and 370. I've got a new 820 too because it's like a pair of comfy slippers :D and in case I ding something again.

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
26 Mar 2020 9:35PM
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Lucky you upgraded, maybe because you're in NZ. Axis have traditionally had some stock shortage issues. Been waiting for 4 months so far for my new mast.... And now the tray and 66 wing are sold out.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
27 Mar 2020 10:53AM
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Alysum said..
Lucky you upgraded, maybe because you're in NZ. Axis have traditionally had some stock shortage issues. Been waiting for 4 months so far for my new mast.... And now the tray and 66 wing are sold out.


Easier when there's stock on hand...

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
30 Mar 2020 5:42PM
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Has anyone kited with the 1000 wing? Not looking at getting it for kiting specifically but wondering how it behaves.

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
20 Oct 2020 1:09AM
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I should probably update this thread despite that the past couple of months have mostly been about the wing but I damaged my wing board and went back to kite foiling for a bit.

Firstly the tray 110 is just amazing. Incredibly stable. There's at least 4 of us with a tray at my local.

Second, 3 of us, myself included, we started to use the 920 wing for kite foiling in super light winds. We only had the 920 because we use it for SUP and/or learning to wing.
The 920 is a DOOR incredibly easy and good to learn to nail the transitions. It is slower than the 680 and is harder to sink plus sails upwind when it floats haha but I rather kite with the 920 and an 8m kite than the 680 and a 12m kite (both ozone alpha).

Naturally once the wind picks up the 680 is a treat. I'm using the 390GAP stab with the short fuselage which I always use on the wing.

I tried the 1000HA once with a kite and didn't like it. Love it on the wing though.

I need to demo the 660 next I guess oh and the ultra short fuselage too

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
20 Oct 2020 9:56AM
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Alysum said..
I need to demo the 660 next I guess oh and the ultra short fuselage too


The gull wings like to carve, the flat wings like to go straight.

IIRC the 660 was designed as a high-lift wing, so the 680 will most likely be faster (I reckon the 820 is faster) but when you carve the flat wings IMO they tend to fell like they sideslip into the turn -- the gull wings carve around like they're on rails.

You can also get on a bit of wave at just above stall speed and noodle back and forth hardly moving. I reckon the lift is as good as the 820 but the smaller package makes it more agile -- of course.

I found the ultra-short just too twichty. Going from the regular to the short was more fun but only a little challenging. You will probably adapt though...I just didn't want to put the time into it :D

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
20 Oct 2020 11:11AM
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Kamikuza said..


Alysum said..
I need to demo the 660 next I guess oh and the ultra short fuselage too




The gull wings like to carve, the flat wings like to go straight.

IIRC the 660 was designed as a high-lift wing, so the 680 will most likely be faster (I reckon the 820 is faster) but when you carve the flat wings IMO they tend to fell like they sideslip into the turn -- the gull wings carve around like they're on rails.

You can also get on a bit of wave at just above stall speed and noodle back and forth hardly moving. I reckon the lift is as good as the 820 but the smaller package makes it more agile -- of course.

I found the ultra-short just too twichty. Going from the regular to the short was more fun but only a little challenging. You will probably adapt though...I just didn't want to put the time into it :D



Oh that's interesting the comment on the 660 being slower than 680? I might pass on that then! Perhaps an even smaller stab for tighter turns then if ultra short is too twitchy?

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
20 Oct 2020 5:15PM
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Alysum said..
Oh that's interesting the comment on the 660 being slower than 680? I might pass on that then! Perhaps an even smaller stab for tighter turns then if ultra short is too twitchy?



38kph plus was pretty easy to average with the 820+regular fuse+440 stab... for cracking a long upwind leg setting up for a long downwinder.

But now I look back through my sessions, it seems the 660 isn't that far off, if not ahead. Lots of 10- and 30-second average speeds around 36kph or higher.

But it doesn't feel as easy to do -- I blame the fuse and smaller stab...

I did have a regular fuse I was going to try with my 660 and 370 stab ... but never got around to it, and sold it then bought a 390GAP which just arrived today

But the short/small gear is a lot more fun. So it's a compromise, and I'm more than happy with the low end, and hack n' slash-ability...!

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
20 Oct 2020 6:27PM
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Let me know your thoughts on the 390GAP.

I'm also eying the new flat and fast 420 stab. Mostly for wing but should see how it reacts with a kite

KBGhost
QLD, 260 posts
29 Oct 2020 9:00PM
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Appreciate the comments guys I have the 820 for light winds which I mostly use with tray 94 and peak 4 5m down to 10kts ish then I need a bigger kite. I also have the 600 & 545 kite wings for when it's blowing more.

I have been wondering about swapping the 820 for a 920 to pick up a knot or so. Should I? . Also been recommended the 910 to try for a faster light wind option. . .





Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
29 Oct 2020 9:09PM
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KBGhost said..
I have been wondering about swapping the 820 for a 920 to pick up a knot or so. Should I? . Also been recommended the 910 to try for a faster light wind option. . .


I'd got the higher AR for sure.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
29 Oct 2020 9:31PM
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Alysum said..
Let me know your thoughts on the 390GAP.


I tried it in NZ, and finally got out onmy own onetoday with 660. If you lay it on top of a 370 it's only about 5mm wider at each wingtip...

Not much wind, not much swell. I had a Naish bar on my Drifter because Cabrinha can't build a proper bar to save themselves, so it was a bit tentative.

But confirms my initial impressions compared to the 370 -- little bit looser in the roll when riding in a straight line, easier to tip into a carve. In fact it wants to be carving where it's probably a little more stable ... and less inclined to poke the tips out, or make sucking noises, mid gybe. A bit smoother; I wondered if the up-turned tips of the 370 was poking into some turbulence from the front wing.

I wonder if it's a more lifty profile too cos it seems to glide a tad further when you catch a swell and need less rear foot to drive around...

Certainly for "carving" I think the 660 and 390 are a great match for focusing on that "style". If speed in a straight line is your thing, go for non-gull wings and "regular" stab.

Now I was thinking about that 460 today too...I bet I'd poke it out a lot more though.

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
24 Nov 2020 9:41PM
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Cheers Kami.

Has anyone tried the 860 for light wind kite?
Lately I've been using the 920 way more than the 680. Yes it's much slower but it's so much easier and I can fly much smaller kites.
Quite a big difference in surface area the 860 vs 920 so not sure it will have as much lift?

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
25 Nov 2020 7:36PM
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Alysum said..
Cheers Kami.

Has anyone tried the 860 for light wind kite?
Lately I've been using the 920 way more than the 680. Yes it's much slower but it's so much easier and I can fly much smaller kites.
Quite a big difference in surface area the 860 vs 920 so not sure it will have as much lift?



My 2 cents again...

IIRC the x60 line was designed for high lift at lower speeds. I reckon the 660 goes very nearly as low as my 820 and holds a line in a carve much better. It's pretty fun sometimes just to sit on a slow-moving swell and diddle about at almost-stall speed.

I rode 660, 860 and 900 in a single session, all other gear the same, and I felt the 900 was fast and a tad more glide, but the 860 -- surprise surprise -- carved harder.

I'm thinking I'm going to get a 760 for a bit more glide and low end...without going too wide.

Best advice -- try and get a demo

eppo
WA, 9372 posts
27 Nov 2020 7:04PM
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Kamikuza said..

Alysum said..
Cheers Kami.

Has anyone tried the 860 for light wind kite?
Lately I've been using the 920 way more than the 680. Yes it's much slower but it's so much easier and I can fly much smaller kites.
Quite a big difference in surface area the 860 vs 920 so not sure it will have as much lift?




My 2 cents again...

IIRC the x60 line was designed for high lift at lower speeds. I reckon the 660 goes very nearly as low as my 820 and holds a line in a carve much better. It's pretty fun sometimes just to sit on a slow-moving swell and diddle about at almost-stall speed.

I rode 660, 860 and 900 in a single session, all other gear the same, and I felt the 900 was fast and a tad more glide, but the 860 -- surprise surprise -- carved harder.

I'm thinking I'm going to get a 760 for a bit more glide and low end...without going too wide.

Best advice -- try and get a demo


What had more lift the 900 or 860?

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
28 Nov 2020 12:46PM
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eppo said..
What had more lift the 900 or 860?


Without measuring it, I couldn't even guess. Once you're foiling, and unless it's a piss-poorly designed foil, I don't notice any difference in "lift", from 550 to 1020...

What I do judge things by is how it feels to "carve", low-speed stall speed and glide...and general handling.

If memory serves, the 900 glided a little further and easier, but the 860 carved better. Both had a similar low-end -- I only had the Garmin GPS and that was in my pocket, so couldn't check on-the-fly.

I'm not a fan of wide wings though... so neither was really up for serious consideration

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
29 Nov 2020 11:19PM
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High aspect wings are faster and will glide longer.

Even the new 980 on paper would glide even more (and faster).

Does the 860 sink and not floats on its side like the 920 (which loves to sail upwind )

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
29 Nov 2020 10:29PM
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Alysum said..
Does the 860 sink and not floats on its side like the 920 (which loves to sail upwind )


Um... pretty sure it floated on its side. The 820 definitely does.

The 2010 floated with the board nose-up, fuse and stab down. That was weird

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
1 Dec 2020 10:54PM
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Yeah the 920 also floats upright with the axis tray board.

Alysum
NSW, 1024 posts
4 Jan 2021 3:44PM
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So who has a carbon mast ? Is it worth the price tag with little weight benefit compared to other branded carbon masts ?

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
4 Jan 2021 10:59PM
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Alysum said..
So who has a carbon mast ? Is it worth the price tag with little weight benefit compared to other branded carbon masts ?



I think I've mentioned the relative stiffness being a pro, but apparently the feel is "improved". I'd demo before buying but I'm afraid to demo :D

There's also the option of Project Cedrus -- carbon mast (mostly) and supposed to be pretty good according to Gunnar Biniasch (reviews on Facebook). US$1000 though...
projectcedrus.com

CH3MTR4IL5
WA, 747 posts
4 Jan 2021 9:25PM
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Kamikuza said..

drsurf said..


Alysum said..
What foil board are most of you using with Axis ?

I'm riding a SS DW 4"6 which is ok, but the track is too far forward, so my front foot is in front of all strap holes (I don't use straps though but it would be nice to be able to put a half strap).

Don't think I've ever seen anyone with an Axis Kink or Tray board, would be keen to hear some opinions on something a little shorter than my 4"6, a little lighter, floaty enough and some nose rocker for those oops touchdowns (surf and flat water kite only).




What they all said - the axis tray is awesome (I'm using it with a duotone foil). I went from a 145cm north sense to the 94cm tray and two weeks in am loooving it. With a 950 carve wing I have it on the 1 setting and its perfect.

Touchdowns are fine, it bounces back up on almost anything short of poleaxing it into the water. I actually think more forgiving then my previous board. I don't feel like i've lost anything on the bottom end, its so floaty and wide it makes up for the length. I can get going with the 5m peak in 10kts with no dramas.

Its been said before but carving around with a tiny little board is just amazing - night and day better.



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"Axis Foil Stoke!!" started by eppo