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Intermediate Rider - KITE ADVICE (Time to change Switchblade - too slow)

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Created by gilmerp 1 month ago, 24 Oct 2020
gilmerp
NSW, 10 posts
24 Oct 2020 6:47AM
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g'day...I am 95kg and been kiting for 10 years....but have decided to start to push myself and now starting to learn loops....but my 2018 11m Switchblade is so slow in turning. I didnt realise how bad it was until i started loops !

I dont go into the waves, ever...I love the stability and power range of the SB but it really does turn so slowly....I do have a 10m SB, but i am not sure 1m makes all that difference....

Looking at the Core xR6....any other suggestions ?

Thanks all

Gilly3
QLD, 759 posts
24 Oct 2020 6:52AM
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Hey mate, look towards a low aspect kite if u want a fast looping kite.....high aspect kites turn slower and loop slower, but you can loop any kite....just make sure you commit 110% and fishing pole that bar!!

Ohh, and post videos of your attempts

good luck and good winds!!!

gilmerp
NSW, 10 posts
24 Oct 2020 8:01AM
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Gilly3 said..
Hey mate, look towards a low aspect kite if u want a fast looping kite.....high aspect kites turn slower and loop slower, but you can loop any kite....just make sure you commit 110% and fishing pole that bar!!

Ohh, and post videos of your attempts

good luck and good winds!!!


Thanks Gilly for the reply...will a low aspect kite also give me the same boost as a high aspect...can i have my cake and eat it or does a quick turning low aspect kite mean less boost or stability ?

should have captured yesterdays failed attempt....i was SMASHED ! and all day...

gilmerp
NSW, 10 posts
24 Oct 2020 8:02AM
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just checked it out on the oul google !

crap...i cant have both.

Low aspect kites: short and wide. Turn quickly, though have less less lift and float than high aspect kites. More depower at the bar. More stable in gusty winds and drift down wind well.May 4, 2018

Gateman
QLD, 383 posts
24 Oct 2020 7:48AM
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gilmerp said..
g'day...I am 95kg and been kiting for 10 years....but have decided to start to push myself and now starting to learn loops....but my 2018 11m Switchblade is so slow in turning. I didnt realise how bad it was until i started loops !

I dont go into the waves, ever...I love the stability and power range of the SB but it really does turn so slowly....I do have a 10m SB, but i am not sure 1m makes all that difference....

Looking at the Core xR6....any other suggestions ?

Thanks all


Hey Gil
I had 9m Switchy and 12m LF Solo, if you think the switchblade is slow then the Solo turns in slow motion. I did demo on Neo, Pivot and Cab Moto. Enjoyed the Neo and will consider for my next quiver, wasn't impressed by the Pivot but I think it was set up on too small a bar, ended up with 10m and 12m Moto since I prefer the Cab Trimlite bar with fireball setup to all the other bars. Moto has similar feel to switchblade in my opinion and turns quicker, handles very gusty conditions slightly better but marginally lest float and boost. We don't have a Core dealer that I know of around here but definitely demo if you can and the Neo or Dice are worth a go too. one of our local sponsored riders moved from the Switchblade to the North Orbit.

gilmerp
NSW, 10 posts
24 Oct 2020 9:55AM
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Gateman said..

gilmerp said..
g'day...I am 95kg and been kiting for 10 years....but have decided to start to push myself and now starting to learn loops....but my 2018 11m Switchblade is so slow in turning. I didnt realise how bad it was until i started loops !

I dont go into the waves, ever...I love the stability and power range of the SB but it really does turn so slowly....I do have a 10m SB, but i am not sure 1m makes all that difference....

Looking at the Core xR6....any other suggestions ?

Thanks all



Hey Gil
I had 9m Switchy and 12m LF Solo, if you think the switchblade is slow then the Solo turns in slow motion. I did demo on Neo, Pivot and Cab Moto. Enjoyed the Neo and will consider for my next quiver, wasn't impressed by the Pivot but I think it was set up on too small a bar, ended up with 10m and 12m Moto since I prefer the Cab Trimlite bar with fireball setup to all the other bars. Moto has similar feel to switchblade in my opinion and turns quicker, handles very gusty conditions slightly better but marginally lest float and boost. We don't have a Core dealer that I know of around here but definitely demo if you can and the Neo or Dice are worth a go too. one of our local sponsored riders moved from the Switchblade to the North Orbit.


Appreciate the response Gateman. Will check out the Moto for sure, as i too am a fan of the trimlite bar with fireball. I am also leaning towards trying out the CORE xr6 and the F1 Bandit. Will now also throw in the NEO.

cauncy
WA, 8030 posts
24 Oct 2020 7:19AM
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Ozone enduros, jumps a good as anything out there, very pivotal quick loops with a nice feel to it, very nice drive through powered transition with no delay
In an 8/10 quiver for wa it's perfect,
Switching to free ride setting you get improved hangtime , someone that likes to fly their kites will appreciate them, a very connected feel being pulley free, with mid bar pressure, if you demo make sure to set on correct settings, freestyle and middle backline is as quick and as powerful as the kite gets,

psychojoe
VIC, 988 posts
24 Oct 2020 11:27AM
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I thought one of the more knowledgeable guys might suggest trying short lines. I've never done it but others say it's effective in trading power for responsiveness, or something like that.

Kamikuza
QLD, 5761 posts
24 Oct 2020 11:00AM
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I'm surprised nobody has said "good luck getting an 11m to loop". I would have said the same about the 10m but Nick won the KOTA on it so... On that topic, the Pivot won what, three times? Wasn't that an 11m?

Otherwise...C-kite.

Andrash
WA, 616 posts
24 Oct 2020 12:44PM
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All main brands that I know of have at least one "all-arounder". They will loop reasonably quickly and give you the float as well. They are usually mid aspect kites which you can tune into what you want to do. However, it is unlikely that you will jump like on a high aspect, or loop like a low aspect wave kite. Technique and dedication make an enormous difference too, no matter what you fly.

BrisKites
QLD, 1279 posts
24 Oct 2020 7:13PM
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The belief of high aspect kites having the ability to loop is now being challenged. I can attest to the North Orbit actually looping very well. Also Duotone have made some changes to the Rebel this year and looks at least in the video to loop nicely but they are yet to arrive in Aus.Probably the biggest question you need to ask yourself is what you want from the loop. Do you want the power and sudden yank in the loop or just a consistent looping kite that you are confident will catch you on landing?

Chris_M
1986 posts
24 Oct 2020 5:29PM
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Switch Nitro, North Vegas, Ozone C4 have all been good for me looping. And I had a pretty mad time on a 7m Switchblade in crazy storm and it was actually pretty mean for looping! But my 12m Switchy was a pig. Spose' anything will loop when its windy enough!

Nitro and Vegas my faves though

azza2u
QLD, 84 posts
24 Oct 2020 8:50PM
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10m and up switchblades are really slow to loop but I still love them for the great boosting and dependable control and hangtime. That being said at a demo day I tried an Orbit and will probably look at them to replace my 10m SB one day. Had a similar level of boost to it but you really had to move the kite while in the air a lot more with the Orbit than I was used to. But it turned so quick I finally realised how people were getting away with looping all the time and had time for things like heli loops on the way down where the SB might have only gotten 3/4 through it.

KPSS Used
NSW, 303 posts
Site Sponsor
25 Oct 2020 7:48AM
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See if you can grab a demo on the new Ozone Enduro V3, which is an excellent boosting and looping kite. Other contenders in our range are the Core Xr6 and the North Orbit and Ozone Amp.

AquaPlow
QLD, 952 posts
25 Oct 2020 8:27AM
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Gilmerp..
A factor I used related to age... My kid after going to a grom fest training camp (coach just happened to be former world champ!!) Took off with the tricks progression.. And his favourite kite i still a C kite but... He is now early 20's with good power to weigh ratio and enjoys gym work...
At the time I opted for smoother less power surge kites as trying to unhook an hang on when the P2W equation has moved on (approx 48 yo then) so suggestions from dealers briskites and kpss reflect this.. So if u are likely to unhook go for smooth power delivery.. But if available check a C kite for the experience.. Once they got bridals to support LE.. They were way less brutal.. Which was a decade plus ago
Cheers
AP

snalberski
WA, 750 posts
25 Oct 2020 12:14PM
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If you want to start boost looping mega loop style then the stability of the canopy should be high on your list of requirements... more so than how high the kite will go. This is because to get the full effect of a powered loop it is best to initiate the loop before the kite reaches the top of the climb. This means a percentage of the possible vertical travel is translated into horizontal travel. A 5 strut Kite will mostly be more stable than a 3 strut. I had Enduro 3 strut and changed to Amp 5 strut which is much more stable when hard looping. Open C style are usually what manufacturers will label as their looping kites. This is what seems to be true to me however that style of kite has a narrower usable wind strength range as it is more specialized than the 'one Kite for everything' design and marketing mostly offered.
One Kite for everything design kites will normally loop OK but usually with less power than kites designed for boosting and looping.

gilmerp
NSW, 10 posts
25 Oct 2020 6:28PM
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Thanks all for the replies...really great comments/feedback here.

Decided to lose a couple of kilos and stick with the SB, but on my 10m rather than 11m. I am just getting the hang of big air and feel i might go backwards if i switch kites, when i am only at basic looping. I will stick with the SB for this season and get my technique right on simple loops and more importantly the 'dedication' as Andrash above mentions.

From what i can gather, all 5 strut 11m kites will be slow turning. So if continues to be an issue after i learn some basic technique, then will switch to Cabrinha Moto, which appears to be a 'one kite for everything' but wit less low end and hangtime than the SB, but will turn quicker as a 3 strut kite lower aspect kite. I really like the Cabrinha bar with the fireball set up, so this means i am only paying for a new kite, not bar and harness set up.

Though in saying that, I might try the North Orbit !!! Few comments here suggests worth checking out.

psychojoe
VIC, 988 posts
26 Oct 2020 10:16AM
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Yeah, I've only flown anything over an 8 a handful of times and they all felt like driving a truck or a barge

Gateman
QLD, 383 posts
26 Oct 2020 6:46PM
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gilmerp said..
Thanks all for the replies...really great comments/feedback here.

Decided to lose a couple of kilos and stick with the SB, but on my 10m rather than 11m. I am just getting the hang of big air and feel i might go backwards if i switch kites, when i am only at basic looping. I will stick with the SB for this season and get my technique right on simple loops and more importantly the 'dedication' as Andrash above mentions.

From what i can gather, all 5 strut 11m kites will be slow turning. So if continues to be an issue after i learn some basic technique, then will switch to Cabrinha Moto, which appears to be a 'one kite for everything' but wit less low end and hangtime than the SB, but will turn quicker as a 3 strut kite lower aspect kite. I really like the Cabrinha bar with the fireball set up, so this means i am only paying for a new kite, not bar and harness set up.

Though in saying that, I might try the North Orbit !!! Few comments here suggests worth checking out.


Just a suggestion but I have the Cab Overdrive bar which can be adjusted from 48 to 56cm, pretty much fly all my kites on the wider setting, including the 8m last time it was blasting 25 knots. Basically I forgot to change it and only thought about it after the session.

Andrash
WA, 616 posts
26 Oct 2020 6:06PM
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Gateman said..

Just a suggestion but I have the Cab Overdrive bar which can be adjusted from 48 to 56cm, pretty much fly all my kites on the wider setting, including the 8m last time it was blasting 25 knots. Basically I forgot to change it and only thought about it after the session.


Longer bars have more leverage, so they are easier to loop or turn in general. They have been my preference for higher precision kite moves on the waves or quick take-offs from the lip... and for avoiding tennis elbow (joke away...)

zlatko
19 posts
26 Oct 2020 7:29PM
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I second what Gateman wrote - you can ride any kite with Cabrinha bar. I ride my Ozone kites with it as well as with Ocean Rodeo's Shift bar. Nowadays we should choose the kite we like best and bar we like best separately, long gone are the days when those two needed to be one brand to work well together. Same goes for harnesses and spreader bars - I personally use 2018 Ride Engine harness with Mystic Stealth bar.
So @gilmerp - do not limit your kite choice because of the bar - that is not an issue.
Sorry for the off-topic! :)

listery
QLD, 62 posts
26 Oct 2020 10:51PM
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zlatko said..
I second what Gateman wrote - you can ride any kite with Cabrinha bar. I ride my Ozone kites with it as well as with Ocean Rodeo's Shift bar. Nowadays we should choose the kite we like best and bar we like best separately, long gone are the days when those two needed to be one brand to work well together. Same goes for harnesses and spreader bars - I personally use 2018 Ride Engine harness with Mystic Stealth bar.
So @gilmerp - do not limit your kite choice because of the bar - that is not an issue.
Sorry for the off-topic! :)


There's a reason why they make high v bars

zlatko
19 posts
26 Oct 2020 9:25PM
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@lister - just few brands still insist on using high V-split, like Core and North/Duotone. Nearly every other brand uses low V. And even those 2 brand's kites are questionable if really flying better on high V. And by the way Duotone's click bar provides adjustable V-split.

Andrash
WA, 616 posts
27 Oct 2020 3:55PM
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zlatko said..
... And by the way Duotone's click bar provides adjustable V-split.


It is relatively easy to convert a low V bar to a high V bar, so even that is not an issue any more.

zlatko
19 posts
27 Oct 2020 7:37PM
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Andrash said..
It is relatively easy to convert a low V bar to a high V bar, so even that is not an issue any more.

Agreed :) Adjustable V distributors are even commonly being sold as an accessory.

bjw
NSW, 3238 posts
28 Oct 2020 10:25AM
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listery said..

There's a reason why they make high v bars


To stop you buying other brand's bars.

Andrash
WA, 616 posts
28 Oct 2020 10:40AM
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Re. low V - high V matters.

Given the standard length of lines, the significance of flying the same kite on high or low V bars depends on the wing span of the kite. E.g. there should not be much difference with smaller, lower aspect kites (like my 5m Neo), but it more likely becomes noticeable with larger high aspect kites.

To explain it more precisely, when you see the front lines and the kite as one unit, high V makes that unit more compact. The question, as often the case, is the degree of difference and that's where kite-design comes into play.

Very few of us have the opportunity, or take the hassle, to fly the same kite with two bars (low and high V) in the same session. However, with the relative simplicity of switching a bar between low and high V, it is reasonable to fly the kite the way it was designed / recommended.



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"Intermediate Rider - KITE ADVICE (Time to change Switchblade - too slow)" started by gilmerp