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Changing length of kite lines

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Created by bramber 1 month ago, 20 Oct 2020
bramber
VIC, 100 posts
20 Oct 2020 11:46AM
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My 27m kite lines got chopped in an accident and I want to convert the ends to make a set of 22m lines.

What is the best way to (i) measure the length of each line to 22m and (ii) make the end attachments?

Cheers

Airborne
WA, 224 posts
20 Oct 2020 9:14AM
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Hi Bramber

this is the best tutorial I have found to do this:



I ended up getting the tools suggested in the video and it's surprisingly easy and quick even for someone like me who has no experience with this. You can get the tools from Ronstan Australia www.ronstan.com.au/ cost me about $80 for both tools delivered. Just contact them on their website as the tools I was looking for were not all listed there.

After doing a couple of lines I measured that after doing the new loop you lose exactly 17cm of line from the original length.

Best way to measure line lengths ? Get a 30m tape measurer from bunnings: www.bunnings.com.au/trojan-30m-steel-tape-measure_p5660651

hope this helps
Christian

bramber
VIC, 100 posts
20 Oct 2020 2:00PM
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Select to expand quote
Airborne said..
Hi Bramber

this is the best tutorial I have found to do this:



I ended up getting the tools suggested in the video and it's surprisingly easy and quick even for someone like me who has no experience with this. You can get the tools from Ronstan Australia www.ronstan.com.au/ cost me about $80 for both tools delivered. Just contact them on their website as the tools I was looking for were not all listed there.

After doing a couple of lines I measured that after doing the new loop you lose exactly 17cm of line from the original length.

Best way to measure line lengths ? Get a 30m tape measurer from bunnings: www.bunnings.com.au/trojan-30m-steel-tape-measure_p5660651

hope this helps
Christian


Thanks for the pointers!

Sandfoot
490 posts
20 Oct 2020 3:34PM
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Just do a equal 4 line length check as per normal calibration technique. If equal then ;

Measure back 5 meters from end of lines and cut allowing the 17cm and then sheath or as in the video splice.

Bur as the dude said in the vid his meothod is if you can't use a sewing machine, if you can sew then you are better to sheath and sew as per the OEM products.

if all 4 lines were cut in the accident then lay the lines out next to another bar and lines as a reference

bramber
VIC, 100 posts
20 Oct 2020 10:13PM
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Select to expand quote
Sandfoot said..
Just do a equal 4 line length check as per normal calibration technique. If equal then ;

Measure back 5 meters from end of lines and cut allowing the 17cm and then sheath or as in the video splice.

Bur as the dude said in the vid his meothod is if you can't use a sewing machine, if you can sew then you are better to sheath and sew as per the OEM products.

if all 4 lines were cut in the accident then lay the lines out next to another bar and lines as a reference


In the video it mentions 20cm as the measurement length, why is it youre saying 17cm?

Gateman
QLD, 383 posts
20 Oct 2020 10:53PM
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bramber said..


Sandfoot said..
Just do a equal 4 line length check as per normal calibration technique. If equal then ;

Measure back 5 meters from end of lines and cut allowing the 17cm and then sheath or as in the video splice.

Bur as the dude said in the vid his meothod is if you can't use a sewing machine, if you can sew then you are better to sheath and sew as per the OEM products.

if all 4 lines were cut in the accident then lay the lines out next to another bar and lines as a reference




In the video it mentions 20cm as the measurement length, why is it youre saying 17cm?



The two marks are the beginning and end of the loop so you're effectively halving this when you make the loop. End of line to first Mark (10 cm) gets tucked into the line, distance between first and second Mark forms the loop so is half (5cm) and the extra two centre meters comes from the remaining line being thicker at the splice because the tail is tucked into it so it doesn't stretch out as far. Hope this makes sense but you might see what I mean when you do the first splice.

Sandfoot
490 posts
21 Oct 2020 9:00AM
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Sorry bramber the set I cut back was a 17cm measurement, 20cm also good.

If if you have cut all 4 lines off...

You could tie all 4 lines to a fixed point- use one bar lines as a reference of length, have someone pull back on your bar to get all lines equal and then make the 2 marks. Just pm me if you need help and are near Brighton bayside etc, or could just ask some one at the beach etc... cheers Mate

snalberski
WA, 750 posts
21 Oct 2020 9:52AM
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That is a good tutorial vid of the locking splice, which is handy to know for a lot of situations in Kite boarding gear replacement and repair including making new main and depower lines, new pigtails, new safety line bottom connector lines etc etc..
Be aware that with some smaller diameter lines used for flying lines it can get difficult to impossible to achieve a locking splice. The tighter the weave of the line the less ability the line has to birdcage and open up to accept the buried end.
I have some flying line I needed to shorten but it was impossible to do a locking splice. I ended up just folding the end and doing a overhand knot and tidying it up with heatshrink. No problem 2 seasons on.

Gorgo
VIC, 4513 posts
21 Oct 2020 1:11PM
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My two cents.

The Brummel splice shown in the video is fine for kite lines. It's almost impossible to make them to a specific length, but easy enough to make them consistent so you can make all 4 lines match by measuring them the same.

If you want to make one line match another then the normal sewn splice is better because you can easily adjust one line to match another line or a measurement then pin it and sew it. You can still lose a few mm because the bury takes up some length in the line, but it's not so much over the length of a kite line. All the instructional videos show the bury being tapered. It's easy to do so why not? I have no idea if it actually affects the strength. As I said, it's important to make the buries the same length if you want consistent line lengths.

To measure the lines accurately you should anchor all four to a solid point then equally tension each line with 5-10kg in weight. Ideally that would be separate weights for each line but near enough will be good enough. When you tension the lines they will all stretch to a point until the weave locks then they won't stretch much more. If you're observant you can do it by hand pressure.

You don't need special tools. A bent guitar string or thinnish bit of wire is good enough for most line thicknesses. For super thin line use a darning needle from a sewing shop. They're about $2. The thinnest line I have successfully spliced (sewn splice) is 0.8mm.

When I used to make bridle lines I made a measuring jig out of a length of timber and had nails to mark the lengths of each part of the splice.

All this was covered here www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/How-to-shorten-kite-lines-?page=1

bramber
VIC, 100 posts
21 Oct 2020 1:47PM
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How do you do the sewn splice method? I don't have a sewing machine, is it feasible to do by hand?

I was going to do the brummel splice method, is this going to be possible with Ozone lines, or will the sewn splice method be preferable?

Gorgo
VIC, 4513 posts
21 Oct 2020 3:52PM
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You can sew by hand. The sewing is not for strength, it just stops the bury from slipping. The length of the bury is what makes it strong. Use polyester thread.

Depending on what web site you look at the bury is about 60-70 times the thickness of the line, so 2mm line has 120-140mm bury. Make the tail for the bury quite long. You can finish the splice then pull out the tail and trim it to length.

I'm not a fan of the Brummel splice. No manufacturer uses them. All that passing through and back and stuff and having a static lock point seems incredibly complicated and messy to me. I use them for leaders and pig tails and trimmer lines in 3mm dyneema because it's fairly thin and overly strong for kite use. Brummels get really ugly on thicker line. I haven't done kite lines for years. When I did I machine sewed them.

Leighbreeze
NSW, 436 posts
21 Oct 2020 9:11PM
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Gorgo said..
You can sew by hand. The sewing is not for strength, it just stops the bury from slipping. The length of the bury is what makes it strong. Use polyester thread.

Depending on what web site you look at the bury is about 60-70 times the thickness of the line, so 2mm line has 120-140mm bury. Make the tail for the bury quite long. You can finish the splice then pull out the tail and trim it to length.

I'm not a fan of the Brummel splice. No manufacturer uses them. All that passing through and back and stuff and having a static lock point seems incredibly complicated and messy to me. I use them for leaders and pig tails and trimmer lines in 3mm dyneema because it's fairly thin and overly strong for kite use. Brummels get really ugly on thicker line. I haven't done kite lines for years. When I did I machine sewed them.


Thanks Gorgo appreciate the time & photos.
I need to grab the right modest tools needed.So far I have been getting Adams our local kite repairs to make up my line lengths.
Have been using shorter lines 13-15-17m for foiling on my Peak 4s -11m-13m.
Bridles are 3-4mtrs.

Mark50
NSW, 155 posts
23 Oct 2020 9:19AM
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For anyone having trouble following the steps in the tutorial, have a look at the App called Grog's Knots under splices. Although they are using thicker dynema, the technique is the same. They also deal with measurements for the loop etc and other splices and knots that come in handy. You can watch the video and slow it down or look at it by frame for the tricky bits. Great when you have to do something in the field.
Agree re making your own tools. I've not seen any commercial tools that really work for kite lines as they are so fine. Stiff fine wire like guitar strings and fine stainless rod mounted onto dowel handles work well for me.

NorthernKitesAUS
QLD, 942 posts
23 Oct 2020 10:48AM
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So are we in all in agreement, that we're all just sailors at the end of the day. i.e. learning to splice and to maintain your own equipment is part -and-parcel of being a true kiter?!
#noplugandplaykiters #learntosail #appreciatekites #oldseasalt



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