Forums > Kitesurfing General

Advice on surfboard delam

Reply
Created by THE DONG 2 months ago, 9 May 2018
THE DONG
VIC, 454 posts
9 May 2018 9:48PM
Thumbs Up

Get my surfboards custom made by a local crew and about to order a new one.
However my last two boards have had delam issues on the front heel. I think from memory the board is usually 2 x 6oz glass all over or possibly just 6 0z with double layer on rear foot.
My latest board delamed in this area relatively quicker than the board before. The only difference between the boards is that i used wax only and didn't have a front pad. I'm not going to lie the board gets a hammering, strong winds, chop and a lot of aerial work etc.
So was seeking some advice or tips on this issue.
Current thoughts on reducing the delam:
- is compression related directly to delaminating?
- additional glass around the front heal
- do lower quality blanks increase the risk of compression and weakness of the glass bonding to foam? Do i ask my local to seek a better blank? Reason i think this, is a guy repairng my old board said the foam was quite powdery and didnt look of the highest of quality when he was sanding it down.
- add front pad to board (only reason i didn't was because it had a sick paint job and didn't want to cover it up :)

Thanks.

Livit
WA, 370 posts
9 May 2018 8:39PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
THE DONG said..
Get my surfboards custom made by a local crew and about to order a new one.
However my last two boards have had delam issues on the front heel. I think from memory the board is usually 2 x 6oz glass all over or possibly just 6 0z with double layer on rear foot.
My latest board delamed in this area relatively quicker than the board before. The only difference between the boards is that i used wax only and didn't have a front pad. I'm not going to lie the board gets a hammering, strong winds, chop and a lot of aerial work etc.
So was seeking some advice or tips on this issue.
Current thoughts on reducing the delam:
- is compression related directly to delaminating?
- additional glass around the front heal
- do lower quality blanks increase the risk of compression and weakness of the glass bonding to foam? Do i ask my local to seek a better blank? Reason i think this, is a guy repairng my old board said the foam was quite powdery and didnt look of the highest of quality when he was sanding it down.
- add front pad to board (only reason i didn't was because it had a sick paint job and didn't want to cover it up :)

Thanks.


What type of blank (i.e PU or EPS) are the boards made of? Can you find out the density of the blank?

THE DONG
VIC, 454 posts
9 May 2018 10:57PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Livit said..

THE DONG said..
Get my surfboards custom made by a local crew and about to order a new one.
However my last two boards have had delam issues on the front heel. I think from memory the board is usually 2 x 6oz glass all over or possibly just 6 0z with double layer on rear foot.
My latest board delamed in this area relatively quicker than the board before. The only difference between the boards is that i used wax only and didn't have a front pad. I'm not going to lie the board gets a hammering, strong winds, chop and a lot of aerial work etc.
So was seeking some advice or tips on this issue.
Current thoughts on reducing the delam:
- is compression related directly to delaminating?
- additional glass around the front heal
- do lower quality blanks increase the risk of compression and weakness of the glass bonding to foam? Do i ask my local to seek a better blank? Reason i think this, is a guy repairng my old board said the foam was quite powdery and didnt look of the highest of quality when he was sanding it down.
- add front pad to board (only reason i didn't was because it had a sick paint job and didn't want to cover it up :)

Thanks.



What type of blank (i.e PU or EPS) are the boards made of? Can you find out the density of the blank?

PU. I'll give the shaper a call and find out more about the blanks for you
cheers

bjw
NSW, 2528 posts
10 May 2018 3:13AM
Thumbs Up

Try ordering a heavier blank. You can then use less glass.

The other thing I've heard is that the Hawaiian crew think that if you have a spray on blank it's more likely to have issues. Perhaps a tint is better?

vendeavours
VIC, 296 posts
11 May 2018 7:54PM
Thumbs Up

We use lightest PU Blank with 6 x ply Stringer and glass With Epoxy and are own 6 oz clear glass with Carbon twine And boards a fine with in reason Delimitating can also be caused by blueming between coats of Epoxy and over use of hand laming Also have had no issues with tint or solid colours as long correct application between coats


Stuthepirate
WA, 3327 posts
12 May 2018 10:13AM
Thumbs Up

Not trying to sound rude, and supporting local shapers and crew is great.
But, last 2 boards have delammed?
I'd be asking for a free board or at least a heavily discounted price on this one.
Or go to another shaper. They obviously have a process issue or no R&D/QA.

bjw
NSW, 2528 posts
13 May 2018 12:31AM
Thumbs Up

Ive never even seen a local shaper PU kiteboard delam. That's really odd.

Mark _australia
WA, 17797 posts
13 May 2018 12:47PM
Thumbs Up

I'd say garden variety heel dent with poor foam that crumbled and gave the impression of delam?
ie: it might not be actually a delamination.....

Dunno about blooming/amine blush as surf epoxies are the least prone to it - and anyone who does not sand or scuff properly cured epoxy before another coat shouldn't be in the game.....

If it is delam, could be as simple as greasy hands ...... bit then you'd think rails not front heel but ya never know......

I just repaired a factory board where the bamboo delaminated- there was a little bit of vac bag bleeder left on the glass before the wood went on, of course it didn't stick to bloody synthetic wadding material.... retards.

THE DONG
VIC, 454 posts
13 May 2018 3:58PM
Thumbs Up

You might be right Mark. Come to think of it may just be the foam is the main issue. Thanks all for help

hughsheehy
13 posts
13 May 2018 3:48PM
Thumbs Up

You've had two boards by the same shaper delaminate in the same place, the second was worse than the first and you're about to buy another?

My advice would be to buy somewhere else.

Foghorn
WA, 68 posts
13 May 2018 4:36PM
Thumbs Up

Glass on pu just dents with no delam .composites on eps will delam and eventually crack.Epoxy /glass on pu is generally considered the best for strength and feel on the water but will still dent where your feet go.

Mark _australia
WA, 17797 posts
13 May 2018 5:14PM
Thumbs Up

^^^ but that's what I mean.
Is it even delam? Could just be foam degradation leading to a small space under the glass, and there never was a delam.

Before we talk about what cores do what, or offer advice, we need to know more.

But anyway I'd love to hear why you think glass delaminates from EPS more than PU? The bond is just as good......
Or are you talking about styro core itself cracking a few mm under the skin? If that's the case it is due to lower density EPS being not as strong as PU. Typically 28kg EPS vs 35kg PU...... you can't just glass it the same.

But the lighter EPS allows addition of wood, carbon, heel patches, PVC foams - all sorts.
A windsurf board with 16-18kg core and sandwich construction is WAAYYYY stronger than any PU board ever was ....... so you can't generalise and say "composites on eps will delam more"

Then for the other folks: Before we bag out the shaper maybe he had a bad batch of blanks and this info will be wonderfully helpful to him - if he is told. But not if the customer just gets the ****s and leaves.

hughsheehy
13 posts
13 May 2018 6:07PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
Then for the other folks: Before we bag out the shaper maybe he had a bad batch of blanks and this info will be wonderfully helpful to him - if he is told. But not if the customer just gets the ****s and leaves.


Fair, but it does sound as if he's still talking to the shaper. IMHO the shaper should be the one solving this problem. And if he can't or doesn't, I certainly wouldn't be buying more boards from him. And even if he can and does....I'd have reservations unless he really steps up.

THE DONG
VIC, 454 posts
14 May 2018 8:14AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
hughsheehy said..


Mark _australia said..
Then for the other folks: Before we bag out the shaper maybe he had a bad batch of blanks and this info will be wonderfully helpful to him - if he is told. But not if the customer just gets the ****s and leaves.




Fair, but it does sound as if he's still talking to the shaper. IMHO the shaper should be the one solving this problem. And if he can't or doesn't, I certainly wouldn't be buying more boards from him. And even if he can and does....I'd have reservations unless he really steps up.



Yeah I'll be having a chat with him this week. Just wanted to do a bit of homework before I discuss it. I'll let you know what the feedback is. its been a bit of a project with him as I have modified one of his standard surfboards to suit kite construction. He'd be most interested in resolving the issue I'd say. Cheers.

THE DONG
VIC, 454 posts
14 May 2018 4:10PM
Thumbs Up

Had a yarn to the shaper over the phone about my dilemma. He straight up told me that the blanks used for my boards differ from the standard foams they use. Reason being they sourced a heavier duty foam for my boards in the attempt to make them more durable. He said there maybe a risk that these blanks dsourced from a different company MAY not bond as well as the blanks they get from NSW. This added with the foam getting compressed and maybe heat to the board. Leaving surfboards in hot cars? Guilty as charged your honour. In fact I deliberately left my boards in the car to zap a bit of moisture out of fracture lines and dings in my board. Yeah yeah I know, what a muppet.

So to sum it up, board neglect combined with possible weaknesses in the blank used seems to be the issue. Not the glassing. Anyway I have good relations with the shaper. He is going to go back to there standard foams which he is more confident in. Hopefully a happy ending. Whether I agreed to use a different blank for my boards or not I can't remember but **** happens. It's my fault more than anything I'd say.
I like the boards.

vendeavours
VIC, 296 posts
15 May 2018 11:00PM
Thumbs Up

I have been using the lightest Pu blanks available from SurfblanksAustralia NSW And have had no major problems Yes we do get denting depending on the rider But helps if have front and rear 5mm pads I have boards in Epoxy and Pol All you need is good Quality in Blank and appropriate materials and good glasser ??????????? Good luck



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Kitesurfing General


"Advice on surfboard delam" started by THE DONG