Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

Shimming rear wings - oh god its back again !!

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Created by Lambie 1 month ago, 24 Sep 2018
Lambie
VIC, 700 posts
24 Sep 2018 8:14PM
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Hey foilers - Im very much a newby but can now get long runs on both tacks without stacks ! What a relief !
A while ago there was a conversation about shimming the rear wing of a Zeeko Bullet - and I think thta I can now comment. Zeeko should include a shim kit with the bullet for beginners like me !! Ive tried it with, and with out and it definitely makes it a bit easier to ride - that said Ive now removed 'my shim' and am riding it on the 'factory settings' - its different !!

One thing Im still struggling with is doing anything other that 100% concentration - does it get easier ?? Even to trim the kite seems to momentarily take my focus away from foil control and its unnerving ! The thought of moving my feet or contemplating jibing is simply sphincter twitching !! The good guys make foiling look easy - are they just freaks or dont they actally have to work ??

djdojo
VIC, 1473 posts
24 Sep 2018 10:26PM
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Lambie, just keep getting out as often as you can and it will get easier. Start very shallow S turns up and downwind and you'll soon find that carving is easy enough. Not long after that you'll carve right around to toeside ... etc etc

Don't know if it's compatible with the bullet, but the zeeko carver wing may offer a little more stability, especially at lower speeds.

Kamikuza
QLD, 3474 posts
24 Sep 2018 11:49PM
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Relax your knees -- keep them moving the whole time. Don't be standing stiff and rigid.

I don't get out often enough either. I think the good guys are freaks and have too much time but as I get more time under my belt, I feel I'm getting better. Even regular guys just gotta put the hours in.

Keep in mind that, like riding a bike, you can't ride slowly so you're going to have to cruise at a higher speed that you'd ride on a TT...

RAL INN
VIC, 2588 posts
25 Sep 2018 6:30AM
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String together a few sessions in a row and it will all come.

Gorgo
VIC, 4023 posts
26 Sep 2018 2:47PM
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Rule one of foiling, anything really, is: "More riding. Less thinking."

All these tricky techniques and messing about with stuff are things you do while your body is learning to feel what is happening with the board and foil underneath you. Initially you try to break it down into separate special movements that make stuff happen.

Once you get past that stage it is no different to riding any other directional. Some of the movements may be more subtle, some exaggerated. The essential movements and techniques are the same.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to mess around with the trim of your foil. Most people go round a loop where they change things, but end up with the designer's original settings. It's a bit strange when you think about it. A professional engineer has sweated blood to find the optimum configuration for thousands of variables, and some bunny comes along and starts messing with it.

eddiemorgs
NT, 326 posts
27 Sep 2018 1:58PM
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Select to expand quote
Lambie said..
Hey foilers - Im very much a newby but can now get long runs on both tacks without stacks ! What a relief !
A while ago there was a conversation about shimming the rear wing of a Zeeko Bullet - and I think thta I can now comment. Zeeko should include a shim kit with the bullet for beginners like me !! Ive tried it with, and with out and it definitely makes it a bit easier to ride - that said Ive now removed 'my shim' and am riding it on the 'factory settings' - its different !!

One thing Im still struggling with is doing anything other that 100% concentration - does it get easier ?? Even to trim the kite seems to momentarily take my focus away from foil control and its unnerving ! The thought of moving my feet or contemplating jibing is simply sphincter twitching !! The good guys make foiling look easy - are they just freaks or dont they actally have to work ??


Hey Lambie . Glad to hear you have made progress

Good to hear the adjustment makes a difference , but in the end its time on the water . Each foil you ride will have different characteristics , as you have found already just by making a change to foil setup .
I have found it it occasionally takes quite a while to adjust to a different foil when swapping with a mate . It takes me at least 15 minutes to start to ride it intuitively again ..... therefore .... time on the water as Gorgo says , for your subconcious to make adjustment .

And that seems to be a major point in foiling , the difference between my concious and subconcious adjustments as I learn . For me , not so apparant with windsurfers , tts and sbs after 35 years . Its the subconcious which seems to need time to adjust , you cant make it do it . Theres some weird nob twiddling happening in my body while this happens , dont who is doing it , but its not my concious thinking doing it ... and then I am right after a bit

Every session , i almost always blow the first couple of gybes ... and then i wont fall off again for 30 minutes . Whats with that ?

When you can do it without concentrating so much you are getting somewhere . It will happen , but it took me while to get to this point . Then you get on a different foil and it changes again .... the settings change .

Just keep working through it , theres so much going on , each time you go out you will incrementally add time on the water and some more skills and your subconcious will adjust . I must have done thousands of gybes to be able to turn onto a swell and transition cleanly ...so many crashes over 18 months

Still loving it

RAL INN
VIC, 2588 posts
27 Sep 2018 2:32PM
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I think the cure for Lambie's falling is focus.
focus on all the mercury in the lakes and the great whites and makos outside.

Kamikuza
QLD, 3474 posts
27 Sep 2018 4:17PM
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Select to expand quote
RAL INN said..
I think the cure for Lambie's falling is focus.
focus on all the mercury in the lakes and the great whites and makos outside.


I learned in the middle of winter -- not falling in the freezing water was a great motivator

AquaPlow
QLD, 658 posts
28 Sep 2018 9:26AM
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JIC this might help...
I am in vacuum mode for information and distilling out the best bits...
I am hoping following this....
(for you from about 5:30)


with this (for you probably from about 2:30)

smooths my path
Keep the comments coming
Keep chilled
AP

Kamikuza
QLD, 3474 posts
28 Sep 2018 10:13AM
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Notice the first guy in the first video is talking about moving his head forwards, but actually moving his hips forward and keeping his head centered over his hips -- yoga lunges.

dafish
NSW, 1244 posts
28 Sep 2018 10:15AM
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Does it get easier? Yes. Muscle memory will kick in, but foiling is super dynamic. Eventually you will move micro movements in your hips without even realising it. It all takes time on the water.
Saying that, I am at a new phase myself. I have been riding a strapless Paipo for three years and can pretty much do anything and am super relaxed. Over the course of my last trip I bought a SLingshot Converter hoping to narrow my gear choice for traveling and not having to bring a kite dedicated surfboard as well. One normal surfboard, one converter, two kites. As a surfboard the converter is acceptable enough. As a foilboard however I am so not in love with this board. I rode it strapless for a while with the hope of being able to ride it with straps to get into a little jumping, but more so into bigger waves. Switching stance with straps is a whole new ballgame for me and a bit of a struggle. Also too, my Paipo's that I have shaped have really flat decks. The curve of the Converter is domed and makes the board even more twitchy and have been pitched more times that I can count. I haven't given up on the board because I barely have a dozen sessions into it as a foil, but so far it has not won my heart. I might end up just taking my Paipo with me on trips as well as my Delta.

toppleover
QLD, 1394 posts
28 Sep 2018 7:28PM
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NP Glide comrs with a shimm



Plummet
4253 posts
2 Oct 2018 2:53AM
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Gorgo said..

I'm not sure it's a good idea to mess around with the trim of your foil. Most people go round a loop where they change things, but end up with the designer's original settings. It's a bit strange when you think about it. A professional engineer has sweated blood to find the optimum configuration for thousands of variables, and some bunny comes along and starts messing with it.


Manufacturers shim for generic performance, Not too draggy, not too twitchy. If what you want is outside that setting then shim away. Adding aoa can add stability to a foil for learning. That's a good thing. It makes it more draggy and slows the top speed up and makes higher front foot pressure. All good things for learners.

When you get better and are less ham fisted (footed?) on your feet weighting then adjust back, The setting i have my foil on now is at the other end I like twitchy and responsive a far cry from my learning settings. I'm still using the same foil, The only difference is aoa setting.

I think a lot of people buy and sell foils because it doesnt perform how they want yet they never even consider trying to adjust the foil they have think as you have stated "the designer knows best".

To answer Lambies question. Does it get any better? Yes it does. But it takes a looooong time compared to mastering a trick on a standard board.

RAL INN
VIC, 2588 posts
2 Oct 2018 12:34PM
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Watching Lambie on weekend and if he isn't reasonably stable on both tacks then he does a great job of faking it.



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"Shimming rear wings - oh god its back again !!" started by Lambie