Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

Have Moses 633 on 91cm mast - is it worth to get 590 wing set up?

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Created by Swavek A week ago, 9 Oct 2019
Swavek
WA, 315 posts
9 Oct 2019 8:43AM
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Have and really like my Moses Onda 633 wing on 91 cm mast.

Since I got a bit more confident on the foil I occasionally crave a bit more speed (but not racing speed) I am a heavy rider (110kg dry).

Has anyone have both 633 and 590 setup and how much more speed will I get from 590? I understand that I need to get kitesurfing fuselage and stabiliser if I want the 590 wing.

benmj
VIC, 67 posts
9 Oct 2019 1:16PM
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You could try the 683 it will bolt straight on.
I t will give you maybe 20% more speed than the 633.
The 590 is great though and is a bigger wing for your weight. The 590 will also match the 90 mast well
The 590 top end will be a fair bit higher than the 633 and will be really easy to control at high speed
If you want to tour around at speed then you will enjoy the 590. It carves as well, higher winds will be more fun on the 590

Swavek
WA, 315 posts
9 Oct 2019 12:23PM
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benmj said..
You could try the 683 it will bolt straight on.
I t will give you maybe 20% more speed than the 633.
The 590 is great though and is a bigger wing for your weight. The 590 will also match the 90 mast well
The 590 top end will be a fair bit higher than the 633 and will be really easy to control at high speed
If you want to tour around at speed then you will enjoy the 590. It carves as well, higher winds will be more fun on the 590



Hi Ben, tried 683 and felt it was marginally faster (but much less smooth) than 633, not enough to want it (I would judge it to be 10-15% faster).
I posted this question in another forum. The answer vary greatly - some say I would get extra 5-6 knots of speed, other say it would go 50% faster. What is your assessment? Have you happen to have GPS speed of both to compare the top speed?

benmj
VIC, 67 posts
9 Oct 2019 5:30PM
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Hi Mate have seen a few GPS reads on the 683 but not 633, Just trying to give a ball park figure, there are a lot of variables.
The main thing is that you have ridden it .
My guess is you would like the 590- I think its one of there best wings.
What you will like about it as a guessis that when you are going fast (at say top end for the 633 type of speed) you will feel really comfortable and in control and enjoy carving or just going fast.

warwickl
NSW, 1252 posts
9 Oct 2019 6:07PM
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How about the new 720, guys on another forum are saying it's a good match for the 633.
I would not know as very happy with 683 and 790.

Rattlehead
QLD, 543 posts
9 Oct 2019 7:19PM
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I had a ride of Jason from Briskites mosses 91 cm / 590 wing set on the weekend , very fast and smooth . Well build and very light and stiff.
clocked a top speed of 79.4 km/h or 42.8 kts. That was using my 9m flysurfer soul.

benmj
VIC, 67 posts
10 Oct 2019 9:22AM
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42 knots thats amazing you should be on the pro tour

Swavek
WA, 315 posts
10 Oct 2019 8:32AM
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Rattlehead said..
I had a ride of Jason from Briskites mosses 91 cm / 590 wing set on the weekend , very fast and smooth . Well build and very light and stiff.
clocked a top speed of 79.4 km/h or 42.8 kts. That was using my 9m flysurfer soul.


Wow, this is very fast, much faster that I want to go. Sounds like a good choice then, I should be able to go fast enough for me.

Fly on da wall
VIC, 693 posts
11 Oct 2019 7:36AM
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Rattlehead said..
I had a ride of Jason from Briskites mosses 91 cm / 590 wing set on the weekend , very fast and smooth . Well build and very light and stiff.
clocked a top speed of 79.4 km/h or 42.8 kts. That was using my 9m flysurfer soul.



And I thought the woo's gave a better reading..
What GPS are you using?
I think it's a bit out mate!

Swavek
WA, 315 posts
11 Oct 2019 6:34AM
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Anyone in Perth has 590 wing and would like to try 633 wing? Would be great to swap hydrofoils for a session.

I have a chance to buy a second hand 590 but I am not sure if I want it as I have never tried it. I would like a faster foil than 633, say 50% faster, not just 'possibly a little faster'. Never measured my speed with GPS so I can't even say how fast I am able to go on 633. It does not feel right to get a demo from a store and than buying a second hand foil from someone else

benmj
VIC, 67 posts
11 Oct 2019 9:01AM
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My guess is that the 633 would top out around 18knots and the 590 around 25knots.
By this I mean you could go faster than those speeds but the foil would be operating above its shape and size
I also think the difference between 18 and 25 is a lot

LiquidAloha
NSW, 7 posts
11 Oct 2019 10:21AM
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That sounds about right to me Ben. 590 is a super nice wing but for me at 85-90 kilos not quite the low end I'm looking for in the surf.... so I ride and prefer the 683. 633 is too slow for my preference and doesn't add much more in the low end compared to the 683. I've got a 590 and kite fuse in decent nick for sale is anyone what's to PM me. Happy to ship AU wide at cost. Ben can probably tell us what it's worth between mates :-)

Slack
WA, 630 posts
11 Oct 2019 9:30AM
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Swavek said..
Anyone in Perth has 590 wing and would like to try 633 wing? Would be great to swap hydrofoils for a session.

I have a chance to buy a second hand 590 but I am not sure if I want it as I have never tried it. I would like a faster foil than 633, say 50% faster, not just 'possibly a little faster'. Never measured my speed with GPS so I can't even say how fast I am able to go on 633. It does not feel right to get a demo from a store and than buying a second hand foil from someone else


Hi swavek. I have 550 and 633. You're welcome to try my 550 it is a lot faster than the 633. Im in perth. Cheers Slack

derek72
WA, 17 posts
11 Oct 2019 9:51AM
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Hi Swavek! I have tried the 590 a few times and as you know I have a 683 (the one you rode) and a 633 and I almost always use a GPS so I know the speeds I get. So on the 633 I ride around mostly at under 20 knots, it can be pushed up easily more to the mid 20s but it doesn't like to in my opinion and I don't like the feeling as it goes over 22kn. The 683 is was more comfortable cruising around the low 20kn's and can easily be pushed up to 25, but it definitely can blow out by ventilation as you push upwind at speed and downwind its pretty scary doing 24kn. The 590 definitely feels different and is a great wing, it takes a big longer to get on the foil, but once up and riding it feels way more locked in as you speed up - however the top end isn't actually that fast. I pushed it pretty hard downwind with an R1 race kite and still only saw 24kn top speed. I also found it hard to gybe as way less stable than 683, but still an awesome first fast wing to learn on imo.

If you currently do 20kn plus on your 633 and want to go 50% faster that means you want to break the magical 30kn barrier. Which means you really need a race foil or something similar. A 590 won't cut it, it just can't do anywhere near 30kn in my experience. An interesting development in the easy speed area is the new duotone spirit GT, when we were in mauritius Jerome was doing some fast runs with Darren who was on the moses comet and Jerome was going over the 30kn mark on the production spirit GT (with the rear stab set for less drag). My advice would be skip the 590 and buy a spirit GT - even better have a demo of ASWA's and see what you think - I think they also have a demo 590. As a side note, the comment above about going over 40kn on a freeride wing sounds like a mix up with kn and kph, best I saw on a 590 was about 44kph.

Swavek
WA, 315 posts
11 Oct 2019 10:33AM
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Thanks for the info Derek, based on what you say 590 is different than 633 but not that much faster. I will probably give this 590 a miss then. Will have to try 550 (if I can even ride it given 633/683 are the only wings I ever tried).

derek72
WA, 17 posts
11 Oct 2019 2:20PM
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No worries. You've got to take your time a bit more getting up on the foil, let the board get some speed up on the surface and gradually take-off like an airplane, gently rising so you don't rise too fast and stall. The more flow around the wings the more aggressively you can rise. Its super easy after a few goes but at first you'll be stalling it and dropping hard to the surface a few times and repeating, all part of the constant foil learning process.

Rattlehead
QLD, 543 posts
11 Oct 2019 4:59PM
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Fly on da wall said..

Rattlehead said..
I had a ride of Jason from Briskites mosses 91 cm / 590 wing set on the weekend , very fast and smooth . Well build and very light and stiff.
clocked a top speed of 79.4 km/h or 42.8 kts. That was using my 9m flysurfer soul.




And I thought the woo's gave a better reading..
What GPS are you using?
I think it's a bit out mate!


Garmin Fenix .
Not out , been using it for the last 12 months ...it's spot on.

Rattlehead
QLD, 543 posts
11 Oct 2019 5:05PM
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Rattlehead said..

Fly on da wall said..


Rattlehead said..
I had a ride of Jason from Briskites mosses 91 cm / 590 wing set on the weekend , very fast and smooth . Well build and very light and stiff.
clocked a top speed of 79.4 km/h or 42.8 kts. That was using my 9m flysurfer soul.





And I thought the woo's gave a better reading..
What GPS are you using?
I think it's a bit out mate!



Garmin Fenix .
Not out , been using it for the last 12 months ...it's spot on.


On the same day as I went 79km/h ,another mate took the same foil and board on his 10 m soul and got 62km/h and he said he was hardly trying , same board and foil same day , different kites and different gps's .
im saying the 590 is plenty fast.

Rattlehead
QLD, 543 posts
11 Oct 2019 5:16PM
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warwickl
NSW, 1252 posts
11 Oct 2019 7:00PM
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Rattlehead said..






please show the speed graph

Fly on da wall
VIC, 693 posts
11 Oct 2019 7:35PM
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Yeah nah. That was when it was in the car going too Redcliffe.
It beats getting fined for speeding!

DukeSilver
WA, 276 posts
11 Oct 2019 7:26PM
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Hi Swavek,
As Warwick mentions above, have a look into the Moses 720. Kiteforum has a thread on this wing. Sounds as though it's pretty quick, has good early lift due to it's high AR and 72cm width and very stable. I believe it will bolt straight on to your existing fuse as well. Worth a look anyway.

benmj
VIC, 67 posts
Saturday , 12 Oct 2019 9:00AM
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Dam I have the same gps.

It would blow my mind if you did near 30 knots with that set up

Rattlehead
QLD, 543 posts
Saturday , 12 Oct 2019 9:09AM
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Rattlehead
QLD, 543 posts
Saturday , 12 Oct 2019 9:19AM
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First part is we're i went out on the 15 m and was too lit up, come in and went back out on a 9

benmj
VIC, 67 posts
Saturday , 12 Oct 2019 9:20AM
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Thats awesome
The part after the spike at @ 52 kmh / 28 knots , Thats the really fast and past the ceiling of this foil. Nice work.

Swavek
WA, 315 posts
Wednesday , 16 Oct 2019 8:03AM
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Swavek said..
Thanks for the info Derek, based on what you say 590 is different than 633 but not that much faster. I will probably give this 590 a miss then. Will have to try 550 (if I can even ride it given 633/683 are the only wings I ever tried).


Tried 550 - not for heavy guys I think (or maybe it is my skill level). Not much lift for 110 kg person, quite sensitive to balance changes, was not able to get too much speed compared to my 633 (the wing consumed too much power to simply keep me above the water). I was on 8m kite in 18 knots of wind.

benmj
VIC, 67 posts
Thursday , 17 Oct 2019 7:25AM
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Recon its the 590 for sure that you need



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"Have Moses 633 on 91cm mast - is it worth to get 590 wing set up?" started by Swavek