Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

Fuselage caught thru lines

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Created by Goofynb 7 months ago, 9 Jan 2022
Goofynb
NSW, 8 posts
9 Jan 2022 9:31PM
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I had a bit of a kitemare the other day learning to kite foil. I fell off and when I came up the whole foil fuselage and wing end had gone thru my lines above the bar to the right of my centre lines. So the mast was across my bar and the board on the other side. My mistake I think was to try and pull it back thru with the kite in the air because when I got the front wing back thru the tail wing caught and pulled my bar down heavily on that side. This created a dreaded death loop situation with the speed of the board going thru the water meaning it was going to keep on pulling. I ended up releasing my centre release and then the safety after 2 or 3 loops. Luckily this was enough to de power the kite and let it drift to shore. I think now I should have lowered the kite to the affect side before moving it back thru?
Anyone had the same experience or have some advice?

jamesperth
WA, 602 posts
9 Jan 2022 9:31PM
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Yep this has happened to me and some mates a couple of times. Usually the kite goes in the water. Fortunately it's not a regular occurrence.

snalberski
WA, 846 posts
10 Jan 2022 7:22AM
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When I learned to foil board I had similar thing happen... the board went through the lines. I immediately punched out but the bar I was using didn't allow the safety line to fully travel through the chicken loop assembly, thus disallowing the kite to flag out.
Subsequently I have become hyper critical of all control bars safety systems and functionality.
My advice would be two fold... in any similar situation punch out immediately...
but firstly prior to going out make sure your bars' safety systems are working impeccably.

horey69
QLD, 472 posts
10 Jan 2022 11:49AM
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Yep it happens to every kite foiler, it can be very scary to look up and see the foil sliding back towards the bar.
You just have to do the best you can at the time.

Grant

weebitbreezy
564 posts
10 Jan 2022 8:02PM
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Been there. Done that.

I got away with untangling with the kite at 12. I deliberately didn't lower the kite because I was concerned (rightly or wrongly) about tangles on the mast/fuselage/wings. It was almost definitely the wrong way as it required a moderate level of strength to lift the weight of board and foil and without the lift from the kite because there was a medium breeze (maybe 15-15knots on a 9m) I wouldn't have been able to tread water to do the same thing.

I deliberately land jumps tail first and slow and that seems to help prevent the board from bucking out into the lines.

AquaPlow
QLD, 1039 posts
10 Jan 2022 10:51PM
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mmm - tricky to give precise advice... its wrapped up in learnt memory mapping with experience
Yes happened on 3 occasions all early on in learning process.
Kite never stayed in the air. twice had to actively get the board to go up to get to surface when being dragged underwater..
All times higher end of the wind range for local area so around 20 knots. Gusty site.

Edit - missed pasting this bit in..
Leading edge down and windfull sail getting dragged. yukk.
Worked hard on limiting opportunity my input is along the lines of trying to avoid it occuring..

Each time I tried to stay on board beyond balance point, the easier one went over mostly sideways, the 2 tougher ones arse over and launched the foil. All times I was going slow, In trying to describe it I feel the effort to stay on meant my body was not being flexible or capable of absorbing energy so legs locked straight totally setup to fall off a cliff once overbalanced

So primarily think relates to back foot position and maybe for some also having the foil too far fwd in track when learning.
The default learnt memory response for other kite boarding options (TT or Surf Boards) is back foot pressure for foiling you need to limit or just not do this - the unlearning takes sometime.

I made a comment in the scrum cap post below this one along the lines....
The way you leave the board when foiling is key. ... I 95%+ go over front or back still. Once or twice very gentle drops over side onto foil - a wetsuit helps here. Probably foot straps change this a lot. I always have had one on the front but rarely at the back. Never fight hard to stay balanced - until U pick up that alignment feel (like a continuation of the mast!!).

Take home..
1). If use straps, then check and move position of back one or mast till at least centered over mast. My preference which is where I place feet at take-off now is to have my back foot at the front of the mast. The thinking here is marginally behind the centre of lift for your foil but not way behind.
2). There is a need for speed - not flat out, but for me associating stability and safety with slow did not help.
3). Body stance, so although not easy to be relaxed try to stay crouched in a pro-active stance. Standing and waiting to react is very natural but don't. A useful reset is to put board back down on the surface.
4). Imagine your body is a continuation of the foil mast. If U are out of whack too much chances are early on in the learning curve you perceive this and respond too late and end up fighting for a lost cause. Try to bail before you end up overloading on one foot especially the back one.

Cheers
AP

simon78
NSW, 109 posts
11 Jan 2022 12:37PM
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"your body is a continuation of the foil mast"

Excellent advice Ap! (Learning to foil, I have read and been given plenty of tips. Wow, I would call that 'the complete guide to riding a foil and avoiding injury in less than ten words') thank you.

Goofynb
NSW, 8 posts
11 Jan 2022 10:07PM
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Thanks for the very helpful replies.
So seems like the main points are(please correct me if needed)
*Releasing is going to give you the best chance of getting the foil untangled safely. Hopefully you have an opportunity to re-attach. *Avoid it happening at all by having good foiling technique. The most important part of this is avoid too much rear foot pressure and have a stance in line with the mast.*All the above helps avoid the main problem which is falling off backwards (on your back)
try to fall off the front or back of the board ideally and sacrifice hanging on till the last moment to achieve this.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6390 posts
11 Jan 2022 11:14PM
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Select to expand quote
Goofynb said..
*Releasing is going to give you the best chance of getting the foil untangled safely. Hopefully you have an opportunity to re-attach.

*Avoid it happening at all by having good foiling technique. The most important part of this is avoid too much rear foot pressure and have a stance in line with the mast.

*All the above helps avoid the main problem which is falling off backwards (on your back) try to fall off the front or back of the board ideally and sacrifice hanging on till the last moment to achieve this.


Oh hell no. If the foil is above the bar and you release the kite, then the foil is going to be dragged all the way at the end of the safety line. Where you can't reach it. And there's no guarantee that it won't keep the kite pulling or looping or something else equally convenient.
Keep your cool, assess the situation. If you can control the kite, fly it and figure out how to get the foil out. If you can't control the kite throw all your safeties and get it all away from you. Throwing the QR should not be your first response.
There are patterns to how things go, you can often predict what the foil will do given how you fall off the board...

You're most likely not going to ride the foil into the kite lines, it'll only happen when you fall off. Either the board pops out of the water and loops into your lines, or you fall off and drag your lines into it, or it'll sail into you. Being inline with the mast has nothing to do with it.

Yes and no. You can fall off to the front and have the board chase you and foil itself into your lines. If you fall off forwards, keep body dragging in the direction you were traveling -- away from the foil. And you can be floating in the water doing nothing, and the bloody thing will float right into your lines.

Everything gets worse if there's surf. The first time in many years I had to QR in an emergency was a light wind day, when the waves tumbled the foil into my line, pulled the kite onto the water and I simply couldn't see to pull the foil out. I threw the QR, and then had to release the leash as it was all still pulling... but at my usual spot, the surf is not so powerful and I have just pulled the foil out while flying the kite. Can be a bit of a battle, but IMO better than throwing the QR in a panic.

tl;dr There are patterns, but every situation is different. Keep cool, assess it, then decide what to do.

CH3MTR4IL5
WA, 566 posts
11 Jan 2022 10:08PM
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Select to expand quote

Kamikuza said..


You can fall off to the front and have the board chase you and foil itself into your lines. If you fall off forwards, keep body dragging in the direction you were traveling -- away from the foil. And you can be floating in the water doing nothing, and the bloody thing will float right into your lines.




this is advice for life. First thing i do when i fall off the foil is head upwind with gusto. Don't look for the foil, get out of the way. I have only been hit once by foil in the ass, light wind and couldn't get any power to body drag away.

i have had foil in line a couple of times (usually from a failed takeoff, pocket board pops into the lines). I have had success in lowering the kite to the waterline on the side it went in, and then can usually slide it out and bring kite back up. I have never had to QR.

AquaPlow
QLD, 1039 posts
12 Jan 2022 7:41AM
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Select to expand quote
CH3MTR4IL5 said..



Kamikuza said..



You can fall off to the front and have the board chase you and foil itself into your lines. If you fall off forwards, keep body dragging in the direction you were traveling -- away from the foil. And you can be floating in the water doing nothing, and the bloody thing will float right into your lines.





this is advice for life. First thing i do when i fall off the foil is head upwind with gusto. Don't look for the foil, get out of the way. I have only been hit once by foil in the ass, light wind and couldn't get any power to body drag away.

i have had foil in line a couple of times (usually from a failed takeoff, pocket board pops into the lines). I have had success in lowering the kite to the waterline on the side it went in, and then can usually slide it out and bring kite back up. I have never had to QR.


Tick.. What they said.. Re. Releasing. With LEI kites..

Goofynb
NSW, 8 posts
14 Jan 2022 12:16PM
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Great stuff!
Help me get my confidence back.
Thanks.



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"Fuselage caught thru lines" started by Goofynb