Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

Drowned carbon foil life expectancy?

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Created by Lambie 5 months ago, 23 Mar 2018
Lambie
VIC, 693 posts
23 Mar 2018 8:20PM
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Back in November I lost my tuttle box mounted carbon fibre Spotz foil to the bottom of a fresh water lake - Im still waiting for the irrigators to drain the like so I get the chance to find whats left of it (hit something like a huge carp or a log ?) but Im now doubting they will get the lake low enough for me to even look for it :-(
So the question is - how long can a Spotz carbon foil lived fully submerged in freshwater before its buggered ? Indefinitely or will the carbon fibre structure slowly suffer from osmosis ?? If I dont get the chance to look for it this autumn do I just give up on it ? or just give up now? The foil has been sitting in around 20m of water by my reconing .....

snalberski
WA, 566 posts
23 Mar 2018 6:44PM
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I know someone who recovered a foil after it being on the ocean floor for 8 months. The mast and fuselage are aluminium and lost some of the anodized colour but otherwise fine. The wings are carbon and didn't suffer apart from having barnacles growing on it which he sanded off.

Plummet
4219 posts
24 Mar 2018 1:11AM
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Yeah. It shouldn't be a problem other the external forces causing damage like barnicles, current moving it around.

RAL INN
VIC, 2528 posts
24 Mar 2018 11:47AM
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Epoxy doesn't suffer osmosis like polyester.
chances are it will be a slim ball.
And would you be so cruel as to take away that little fishes new home?

TomW059
175 posts
25 Mar 2018 2:44AM
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2000 years. In 50000 years some future archaeologists will dig it up and wonder what religion it represents .

Lambie
VIC, 693 posts
25 Mar 2018 8:36PM
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Thanks Guys for the replys and the encouragement that not all might be lost! Im glad to hear that the carbon / epoxy (?) composite wont break down in water (and no sunlight at the bottom of this lake!)
Im just hoping it stays dry so the lake levels will fall - what a painful waiting game!!

oldbones
QLD, 89 posts
26 Mar 2018 12:13PM
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Lambie said..
Thanks Guys for the replys and the encouragement that not all might be lost! Im glad to hear that the carbon / epoxy (?) composite wont break down in water (and no sunlight at the bottom of this lake!)
Im just hoping it stays dry so the lake levels will fall - what a painful waiting game!!


Scuba diving buddy, I grid searched for a lost wing. Took 2hrs but found it. Felt like I'd won lotto.

alverstone
WA, 462 posts
26 Mar 2018 9:08PM
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Get a fishing mate with good sidescan sonar and retun signals reading skills to have a search. You could be lucky. Mind you, if the bottom is covered in logs you could be buggered. Have a crack when the water is lower.

CJ2478
NSW, 273 posts
27 Mar 2018 7:46AM
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Spill the beans.... how did you lose a $2000+ foil?

kemp90
QLD, 1613 posts
27 Mar 2018 6:45PM
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This could be a long shot but! If some of your friends fish, they might run a decent sounder. If they run a humminbird mega you will probably be able to see it sitting on the bottom. Drop a mark on it then you will have the gps mark for it.

Long shot but could work

kemp90
QLD, 1613 posts
27 Mar 2018 6:46PM
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Dam. I should have red all the comments before commenting.

pearl
NSW, 971 posts
28 Mar 2018 7:03AM
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^^^ +1 ^^^. But I am a furuno guy. A well tuned sounder with decent transducer is your best hope. Would make it easier if there are no logs/debris and fish. Even if it's partly buried in mud you should pick it up easy at 20m. Could you rake for it with 2 ropes, lead and like a crab dilly net between? We have got a rod back off sand like this that we picked up on sounder

TomW059
175 posts
29 Mar 2018 5:11AM
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They dig up people that have been lying in Lake bottoms fir 2000 years....That Foil is lasting 50k years fir sure

Gazuki
WA, 754 posts
29 Mar 2018 5:47AM
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What lake was this?

Lambie
VIC, 693 posts
13 Apr 2018 5:24PM
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Update from November to April, its been a long wait!! - the lake has dropped a heap as its been so dry in Gippsland and the farmers have been irrigating to keep the farms green and growing - the foil is going to emerge within the next week Im thinking !! Woo Hoo
Even knowing pretty closely where I think I lost it - its still like a needle in a haystack.

And now that the water has dropped (about 40 feet) I can definitely confirm that I didnt hit anything attached to the bottom - absolutely no way. I must have hit a submerged log or maybe a mega carp ? The stainless screws were pulled out of the brass inserts in the mast tuttle head .

If Im lucky enough to find the foil, and its not damaged, where would I get some replacement brass inserts?

djdojo
VIC, 1463 posts
14 Apr 2018 1:43PM
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If it's a (deep) tuttle box, any windsurfing shop and most kiting shops will have the inserts.

snalberski
WA, 566 posts
14 Apr 2018 1:34PM
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Lambie said..
Update from November to April, its been a long wait!! - the lake has dropped a heap as its been so dry in Gippsland and the farmers have been irrigating to keep the farms green and growing - the foil is going to emerge within the next week Im thinking !! Woo Hoo
Even knowing pretty closely where I think I lost it - its still like a needle in a haystack.

And now that the water has dropped (about 40 feet) I can definitely confirm that I didnt hit anything attached to the bottom - absolutely no way. I must have hit a submerged log or maybe a mega carp ? The stainless screws were pulled out of the brass inserts in the mast tuttle head .

If Im lucky enough to find the foil, and its not damaged, where would I get some replacement brass inserts?


The guy I know who lost his mast and foil after hitting a lump of weed also had a brass insert
(1 only ) in a KF box. My JShapes has stainless inserts which would have to be harder than brass. I would be going for hardest you can fond. I'm sure you could buy some from JShapes

Bertie
WA, 1282 posts
16 Apr 2018 1:19PM
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Bet you it was an eel. They get pretty big down that neck of the woods!

Lambie
VIC, 693 posts
16 Apr 2018 9:45PM
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Bertie said..
Bet you it was an eel. They get pretty big down that neck of the woods!


The bloody carp are pretty massive as well !!

Lambie
VIC, 693 posts
21 Apr 2018 8:05PM
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Lake Glenmaggie finally gave up its secret location of my Spotz foil today - lost to the depths of the lake since November ! William my son was the spotter (sorry about all of the mud Will) - great to have a good set of eyes when looking for a needle in a hay stack LOL
The foil hit something hard because the front wing was smashed off and has damage to the leading edge - but the mast and rear wing seem to be OK - Phew!! Thanks to Jake who has been providing regular lake level updates ! The mast and rear wing look OK structurally but there is a bit of a haze / discolouration on the rear wing - hopefully cosmetic ! I had a foil on my Zeeko Bullet today but am a bit keen to get back onto the Spotz foil but only have the Race front wing now - maybe Ill keep to the Zeeko for a few more sessions!!




snalberski
WA, 566 posts
21 Apr 2018 8:20PM
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Awesome! Gotta like the Spotz

Lambie
VIC, 693 posts
22 Apr 2018 8:05PM
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There's quite a bit of mottling / discolouration on the rear wing (the front wing is fuXKeD ) and it seems like the water has got under the clear coat - its pretty easy to peel / chip off . So what to do ? - strip it all off and then what ?? It looks like freezer bite on something thats been into the freezer too long ?

Bertie
WA, 1282 posts
23 Apr 2018 10:28AM
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Strip the clearcoat off, give an acetone wipe, then spray with either a 2 pac polyurethane clear or a good single pac acrylic (like anchor).

let see some more pics of the damage up close. you might be able to fix the foil.

Lambie
VIC, 693 posts
23 Apr 2018 9:09PM
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Thanks Bertie - do I need to respray/ seal the wing after removing the clear coat? It that for structural protection or just for speed? With a bit of a polish (after the clear coat has been removed) it looks to be a pretty good finish ? Im not out to break any speed records !! I read that the Zeeko foils are playing around with 'sharkskin grooving' to prevent ventilation ? maybe super smooth isnt the way to go if absolute top end isnt my goal?? Ive also heard that carbon fibre and UV arent a good combination ?? - is that the reason for the clear coat - sunscreen?? Sorry guys - too many questions !!

RAL INN
VIC, 2528 posts
24 Apr 2018 8:08AM
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Too many?'s

Livit
WA, 376 posts
24 Apr 2018 7:25AM
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Lambie said..
There's quite a bit of mottling / discolouration on the rear wing (the front wing is fuXKeD ) and it seems like the water has got under the clear coat - its pretty easy to peel / chip off . So what to do ? - strip it all off and then what ?? It looks like freezer bite on something thats been into the freezer too long ?


It's a Spotz 2, isn't it? looking at this front wing, and assuming you have no experience with carbon, vacuum bagging, etc... I'd suggest to take it to someone who has some experience.

That generation of Spotz was prone to fail where the wing connects onto the fuselage. I remember the guys here cutting pieces of plastic to jam in between the wing and the fuselage to stop the vibration at speed (due to wear in the joint). That assembly was abandoned with the following generation.

Nothing is impossible and you can probably look at making it a permanent assembly which will be easier and stronger. Transportation will be a pain though. That's the sort of job I would take up as a project for cheap if you were in WA. Pretty sure if you ask around you'll find someone happy to assist.

Another option is to find a used front wing (assuming the fuselage isn't cracked). Spotz went belly up last year so won't be able to source parts from them anymore however it was one of the most popular brand at some stage so surely there are people with extra parts out there.

Richoa
NSW, 408 posts
24 Apr 2018 9:32AM
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like finding a lost child. And I see you were prepared to sacrifice one in the search. Such a feel good story. A current affair got nothing on this place.



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"Drowned carbon foil life expectancy?" started by Lambie