Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

Cheap Chineese Carbon Foil

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Created by cbulota > 9 months ago, 4 Aug 2017
cbulota
WA, 1171 posts
4 Aug 2017 10:45PM
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www.aliexpress.com/item/100-carbon-fiber-surfing-hydrofoil-water-wings/32823752639.html?trace=msiteDetail2pcDetail

A friend of mine sent me this today. Thought it might interest people on a low budget. I have no affiliation whatsoever with this seller and also no idea how good this product is...but I must say it sure looks nice for the price!

Comes out to about $530 AUD delivered.

Christian

Bertie
WA, 1287 posts
5 Aug 2017 2:24PM
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At that price I'm almost tempted. I cant justify spending a lot and as long as the mast and fuselage is good you can make you own foils to bolt on.

DukeSilver
WA, 228 posts
5 Aug 2017 5:18PM
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Theres a thread on these in Kiteforum.com. One person there has one on order so a review should be coming soon.

Lambie
VIC, 701 posts
6 Aug 2017 2:14PM
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Hey Christian - any idea if the foil comes with any mounting suggestions as to the correct placement in relation to the back foot strap position? This foil caught my attention because of the price and Id love to have a crack at foiling - Id be aiming to mount it to an older Underground Kipuna - could that work?
There has been a good discussion in another thread about placement but the concensus seemed to suggest it depends on the style /performance of the foil ? ie just grabbing a foil and chucking it onto a board with no guidance is not a great idea for a beginner cuz any issues could be either foil placement issues or rider issues - or both!!
If these foils are being sold naked (ie no board) then who are they targeting ? From a beginners point of view with an older board lying around they are the right price!!!

snalberski
WA, 590 posts
6 Aug 2017 8:07PM
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The pictures of the foil would visually indicate that the front wing aspect would make it designed as a race foil. If that is the case that would make it very hard to learn on, especially with a 980mm mast. The pic of the rear stabiliser attachment also looks way suspect - what's the deal with the back screw half out? It would be a great buy only if it performs as well as other more pricey options. $500 is cheap for a hydrofoil but its a lot for a winged slippery turd.

djdojo
VIC, 1479 posts
6 Aug 2017 10:32PM
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Urrgh, so many potential pitfalls. If it's a pure knock-off with zero R+D they'll have no idea how much force each joint and component is under. Especially the mast-plate connection looks like a prime failure point. I know it's hard to see from a few pics but I'd be very wary. And buying this kind of thing is a big kick in the guts to those smaller companies who put countless hours into developing a legit product. My 2c.

RAL INN
VIC, 2597 posts
7 Aug 2017 6:57AM
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Just looking at those pics, and the obvious things are the seeming use of the LF/Naish style Alloy plate mount with mast inserted. For a 100% carbon foil this looks "different". Then the wing fixing bolts don't seat properly, the fitting joint of wing to fuselage is very rough, and the fillet joint of mast to fuselage is also looking suss.

juandesooka
158 posts
7 Aug 2017 12:48PM
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Select to expand quote
RAL INN said..
Just looking at those pics, and the obvious things are the seeming use of the LF/Naish style Alloy plate mount with mast inserted. For a 100% carbon foil this looks "different". Then the wing fixing bolts don't seat properly, the fitting joint of wing to fuselage is very rough, and the fillet joint of mast to fuselage is also looking suss.


I am intrigued by this, but not quite enough to put the $ down. I contacted them to suggest they should consider dropping the shipping price (why not try eh), as they have carbon kayak paddles with $9 shipping. They responded that mast and fuselage are integral one-piece, so it's a bulky package, and no dice on less shipping.

I figure this is likely the same as some established brand/model out there. Factory made them for someone else, then they make a few extra to flog on their own.

Gorgo
VIC, 4040 posts
7 Aug 2017 4:18PM
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There's two ways to look at foiling.

1. It's expensive so I must do all sorts of stuff to do it for less money.
2. It's ****ing awesome and it feels so good to have a totally sorted, professionally designed and built product.

I've done both. When I started you needed to do a fair bit of 1. because 2. wasn't really an option.

Now I've got option 2 (J Shapes) and there is no incentive at all to mess around with cheap **** stuff. The good gear is not so expensive any more and works beautifully.

benmj
VIC, 39 posts
7 Aug 2017 5:53PM
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I have had a fair bit of experience designing and making foils and to my eye there is no way that the mast fuselage join can be strong enough in any direction. It looks like carbon on the strut and fuse but the join is weird.
If you look at good brands they either have quite large fuse sections if there carbon or they are made out of metal
this is because they break otherwise.
Also having a the Ali style attachment over the carbon at the top is strange. How does the strut not press against the board as you press down on the plate.

Surfer62
VIC, 1198 posts
23 Aug 2017 6:42PM
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Looks like a couple are on their way to oz

Await the review and i might be tempted





wdric
NSW, 1616 posts
26 Aug 2017 11:30PM
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Select to expand quote
Bertie said..
I cant justify spending a lot and as long as the mast and fuselage is good you can make you own foils to bolt on.


HA, usually if you cant afford to buy it twice then you shouldnt buy cheap ;)

Bertie
WA, 1287 posts
28 Aug 2017 12:29PM
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wdric said..


HA, usually if you cant afford to buy it twice then you shouldnt buy cheap ;)


Thats my saying!..... i looked into it mare and its too high aspect for what i want. so no go.
There are some others on Ali baba but hmmmm not so sure about going that route.

I really like the idea of clearwater hydrofoils, who produce a wooden foil kit for you to assemble. great idea!

weebitbreezy
357 posts
1 Sep 2017 4:15PM
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A mate of mine has one of the clear water foils (as well as a zeeko blue and white). He seems to get on well with the clearwater as he used it for the majority of his learning.

Only had a quick go on it. The wings are big and it lifts at very slow speeds. I'm not good enough to adapt to my mates setup (he likes a very front foot heavy setup and I prefer a balanced setup ) so can't comment much on how it rides but it certainly seems good enough to learn on. It is floaty though - which I personally like - as it makes it easy to start strapless as the foil sinks very slowly.

jamesperth
WA, 535 posts
1 Sep 2017 8:34PM
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Another Alibaba option. Have to buy 10 to get the $338 USD advertised price.






Bletti
WA, 157 posts
5 Sep 2017 1:05PM
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jamesperth said..
Another Alibaba option. Have to buy 10 to get the $338 USD advertised price.







That looks like an identical copy to the Takuma V100 surf/sup/kite foil! It has stellar reviews for wave kiting from Gunnar Biniasch (
) and others. There's a forum post on another site from someone who received this Chinese direct version and has been very happy with it.

I'm keen on getting one of these to kite and eventually put on a sup. I'd be willing to put in the work organizing a group to put in an order of 10 to get a better price! Anyone in WA interested preferably, but interstate would also work and it would still be cheaper to forward post once we figure out the details? Message me if you're keen. :)

jamesperth
WA, 535 posts
6 Sep 2017 8:17AM
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This is a clip (me) riding the Takuma last week at Lancelin.

posko
WA, 177 posts
9 Sep 2017 1:59PM
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jamesperth said..
Another Alibaba option. Have to buy 10 to get the $338 USD advertised price.







Couldn't find this one. Do you have a link?

jamesperth
WA, 535 posts
10 Sep 2017 8:43AM
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Pm sent.

jamesperth
WA, 535 posts
19 Sep 2017 2:53PM
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It's here....





bigtone667
NSW, 990 posts
19 Sep 2017 6:43PM
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And?

jamesperth
WA, 535 posts
19 Sep 2017 5:44PM
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Drum roll....



Inside the box is a padded travel bag...

Opening the bag there are two blanco anodized aluminium masts and a fuse

Masts are sealed against water

jamesperth
WA, 535 posts
19 Sep 2017 5:53PM
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Rear wing shim



Fuselage


And underneath are the wings.




Profile looks correct



Nothing to protect against aluminium / carbon (?) reaction


Mast plate - I believe a tuttle option is available

And all the hardware.


So honestly if I didn't know, this looks like any other $1500-1700 aluminium foil I've seen.

PM me for more info, the factory has minimum order requirement for the best pricing.

Im also working on Surf focused foil board to suit this foil - interested to hear what you think. This is the prototype as far as the shape and layup go. I'm always getting asked about foil boards for customers so though I would see if we can make one locally. The layup could easily be modified for someone wanting an all carbon, lightweight construction or something more rugged.

jamesperth
WA, 535 posts
19 Sep 2017 8:40PM
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It's 5.9kg fully assembled







I need to find out if these tuttle adaptors are available...



bigtone667
NSW, 990 posts
20 Sep 2017 5:40AM
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Looks like it might be a great foil in the surf.

L41surf
40 posts
22 Sep 2017 6:01AM
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Hi jamesperth,

Can you PM me the link as well? Thanks!

Kirk
Santa Cruz, CA, USA

jamesperth
WA, 535 posts
25 Sep 2017 5:08PM
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Hey ok so I've been receiving a million messages about this foil.....

.... and I have to say it's awesome !

I managed a quick session this arvo and it rides exactly the same as the Takuma I borrowed a few weeks ago - it's the same foil right - just black not red.

Its not for the speed demons but it's totally fine for cruising and getting a few waves. Charts say 16 knots, my buddy and I rode it with a 5m single strut Ikon prototype kite on 24m lines and had a blast. (BTW Benoit - I love that kite. )

It's super smooth, no vibration or noise, plows thru weed like it's nonexistent (so it should at 6kg) and gives good upwind and downwind performance. I probably should have ridden a 9m kite and upwind angles would have improved, at the speeds I managed today there wasn't much apparent wind created.

So if you are a wannabe foil racer stay well clear, but for everyday kiters looking for a FUN, EASY, and STRONG foil that can be surfed, kited or SUP'd this is hard to beat.

Its a keeper.

Gazuki
WA, 804 posts
26 Sep 2017 4:55AM
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Ok who is in?, I grab one of the ten if anyone else is interested?

NathanG
NSW, 115 posts
26 Sep 2017 11:53PM
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Yep, I'm in.

thanks James

swoosh
QLD, 1648 posts
27 Sep 2017 8:41AM
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You can call it a cheap chinese foils, but in reality, its likely no cheaper than what the big manufacturers are paying for their foils from the chinese factory. So are they cheap, or are the other foils overpriced?

You are saving by not paying their marketting/ R&D costs... and with that said the R&D in some of the low end surf foils I think is fairly minimal. I.e. the naish stuff has zero protection against corrosion, and just recommends disassembly everytime, a bit of a cop-out if you ask me.

Based on the photos, I reckon the 4 bolt plate adaptor and mast are probably exactly the same as the Naish.

cbulota
WA, 1171 posts
27 Sep 2017 8:31AM
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Select to expand quote
swoosh said..
You can call it a cheap chinese foils, but in reality, its likely no cheaper than what the big manufacturers are paying for their foils from the chinese factory. So are they cheap, or are the other foils overpriced?



Well said, although remember these are direct copies which means all the hard work has already been done and paid for by someone else. Other foils seem overpriced because people involved between the factory and the customers i.e. distributors and shops have to make profit before it comes to you. I also wonder what kind of warranty you would have on those if you had a defect ? James ?

Back to the review about the foil we tried with James 2 days ago. I can vouch for the build quality, it looks and feels just as strong as any other big brand name foil I've tried.

Due to the front wing being so large and wide you can foil at extremely LOW speeds (10km/h or 5-6 knots of forward speed i.e. not the wind speed but the speed you are moving at). The foil I'm used to riding for the last 3 years has a quite large front wing as well but requires double that speed (20km/h) before lifting off. By comparison, a race foil would need somewhere between 25 and 30km-h of speed before lifting off.

The foil is also very stable and incredibly easy to ride. All this makes it the SAFEST and most Progressive foil I've ever tried. For this reason we plan to use it in our foiling lessons for complete beginners.

The downside is that it's actually hard to ride with the board touching the surface of the water (i.e. without the foil lifting off), since any forward speed above 10km/h makes the foil rise up instantly. When you are learning it's important that you go through the stage of riding the board flat without the foil lifting off. It's a massive difference from any other foil I tried, you have to be very gentle with the kite and water start with as little power as possible, i.e. you will have to make some BIG adaptations from your usual water starts if you are learning to foil from scratch with this particular foil.

The other downside is that it's obviously very slow. The easiest way I can describe it is like driving with the handbrake on. I think it would be nearly impossible to go any faster than 30km/h on this foil. So even though it's an excellent beginner foil I think some might want/need something faster. It all depends what king of foiling you're into. If you are happy with having a slow foil that is easy and safe to ride, it's a great option.

Christian



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"Cheap Chineese Carbon Foil" started by cbulota