Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

Armstrong Foil 1200 and 800 review

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Created by KB7 7 months ago, 4 Dec 2019
wolfieee
5 posts
13 Jan 2020 9:52AM
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kobo said..
Armstrong shims, get the +1 if you want to kite or ride bigger waves , it makes a noticeable difference


Hey kobo, I'm going to check which shim I have tomorrow. Why does the +1 shim help with kiting as opposed to the 0? Is it to do with this?

From the Armstrong website: "During a drop or speed spike the +1 helps keep the wing in the water and adds control during turns."

Really nice writeup about the i76, by the way. You make me wonder if I should keep it and try it more, but I'm really pleased with my 1200 and 85cm mast so far. I also must admit, that while more a luxury than a necessity, I do love the light weight carbon setup when I'm walking between the car and water!

Where do you position the mast on your alien air with the i76 and the 1200 when kitefoiling? I'll attach a picture of where mine is tomorrow and show where I have to put my feet on the board.

I weigh 81 kg, by the way, so close to you guys.


Fun discussion.

eddiemorgs
NT, 373 posts
13 Jan 2020 1:25PM
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Adfreetv said..
After a lot of online research I upgraded my Jshapes to Armstrong in the hope that it would magically improve my flying jibes.

i purchased the cf800 wing, 85cm mast 60cm fuse and 4'6" board.
I agree that it is all beautifully made but I have not found it has improved my riding at all

The Armstrong whistles a bit whereas the J Shapes carver has more float and is no slower.
I would like to know about you setup in detail:
1. do you have foot straps? Foot hooks?

2. Do you all have the 60cm fuselage? 3. Do you use the Armstrong board? What shims have you tried (I have tried the 0 and +1) and don't notice much diff?

4. would you prefer a taller mast?

5. how far back do you set the mast?

6. Would you prefer a whole deck pad?

thanks and regards


HI Adfree , I am assuming you mean the jshapes freeride foil ?

If so , its about the same size as the Armstrong cf800( 800cm2) , so I would expect you will still have the same challenges doing a flying gybe no matter what good quality brand... on that size foil

If not , you were riding the larger cruzer foil which is about 1150cm which should be way easier to gybe than the 800cm2 foil ( therefore is it technique ?)

I have both , learnt on the freestyle foil ( 800) and then changed to the cruzer when it came out ( 1150) and although nearly able to complete most gybes cleanly on the smaller foil I got much better at it on the larger foil ... and then found I was much better at gybing the smaller foil when i changed back to it .. therefore my technique had improved

So my take , is that either you should consider changing to a larger foil ( approx 1200 ) for a bit , or you need to rethink your gybing technique ... And I say that with great respect .... trying to not sound like a smartarse .

Given that gear you have is proven top shelf .... and sure , all the little adjustments can make a difference depending on your own set of specs , but the fundamentals of body weight over foil size plus experience , and then kite vs wind strength are all critical factors in the first instance ...

When you have that roughly right for your experience and conditions , you will find that thoughts about other little questions mostly should go away.... and then its your own technique which becomes the obvious outstanding issue .

Thats been our experience anyway . In Darwin , we have about 7 or 8 foilers ... about 5 or 6 guys who are now pretty good , but they all have had different paths and they all gybe in a different way . We swap stories and its amazing how we each come up with a different approach to get the same result .

Most ( except me ) are on the same brand and same size foil .... ranging from 65 kgs to 120
Some down loop , up loop , swap feet before gybe , some after , some before one way and the other after , one struggles to make the change and goes toeside on one side ... the guy is a good foiler but a big fella and we suspect that his is a weight issue over foil size , ie it becomes more unstable for him only , when he goes to swap... which goes back to my question about the size of your foil and sorting out gybing problems

Just food for thought

Cheers

Gorgo
VIC, 4397 posts
13 Jan 2020 5:09PM
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There's a trick to the flying foot swap. It has very little to do with the foil.

There is a zone of stability running from the top of the mast to about 2/3 the way to the front foot position. The distance forward gets longer if you add power, a bigger front wing, more speed, more lift from the kite, lighter rider, whatever.

You can practice riding in ski stance, with both feet together, just in front of the mast. You can stand with your weight on your back foot and practice moving your front foot back and forth from the ski position to normal position.

The benefit of doing this is that you can practice without the instant crash that comes from a failed foot swap attempt.

After a little practice you can go in and out of ski stance fairly easily. When you get comfortable doing that, move the front foot back, then move the old front foot forward and you've just done a flying foot swap.

This is the fundamental movement of the foot swap. Once you can do it you can swap your feet any time you want under any conditions and you get lots of practice swapping feet.

Once you get good at it you can add in more power and that makes strap to strap swaps fairly easy. You can add in a pop to the foil, a micro-send of the kite, all the other things that make swapping feet easy and fun.

In terms of technique this is exactly the same as swapping feet on a surfboard, load the centre of the board, swap, go. It's just that foils require a lot more feel than surfboards. Practicing in ski stance lets you develop the feel to do whatever you want with your feet on the board.

kobo
NSW, 255 posts
13 Jan 2020 6:48PM
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You can go too small for prone I recon, great on a small board when your up , but hard to paddle back out and catch bigger waves on. I can pump my 5'10 back out with the 1550 Armstrong and it's great to paddle and catch bigger waves on.
I recon a 5'2 @ 45 lts would be the best all round for me @82 kgs

Bletti
WA, 161 posts
21 Jan 2020 9:34AM
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Love my Armstrong hs1550 with 50cm fuse, hs 232 rear wing and +1 shim! Waiting on my preordered Hs1050 which was the main wing I wanted, but I'm impressed with the versatility of the 1550! It is super stable even at full speed going down over head waves at margs main break. I have it fully forward on the tracks too and it never wants to kick me off, yet is nice and responsive! Waiting to try the hs1050 with the hs232 small rear wing first before I cut the rear wing down to be even more responsive.

Ride the Hs1550 with my 2.8m cloud from 17/18 kts, my 3.7m from 14/15kts and my bigger clouds down to 7 kts.


kobo
NSW, 255 posts
21 Jan 2020 7:20PM
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wolfieee said..

kobo said..
Armstrong shims, get the +1 if you want to kite or ride bigger waves , it makes a noticeable difference



Hey kobo, I'm going to check which shim I have tomorrow. Why does the +1 shim help with kiting as opposed to the 0? Is it to do with this?

From the Armstrong website: "During a drop or speed spike the +1 helps keep the wing in the water and adds control during turns."

Really nice writeup about the i76, by the way. You make me wonder if I should keep it and try it more, but I'm really pleased with my 1200 and 85cm mast so far. I also must admit, that while more a luxury than a necessity, I do love the light weight carbon setup when I'm walking between the car and water!

Where do you position the mast on your alien air with the i76 and the 1200 when kitefoiling? I'll attach a picture of where mine is tomorrow and show where I have to put my feet on the board.

I weigh 81 kg, by the way, so close to you guys.


Fun discussion.


Sorry Wolfieee, just saw your questions.
Armstrong +1 shim gives you less lift and more speed by reducing the tail wing angle and downward force it produces.
I put both the i76 and Armstrong 1200 in the most rear position in the track for kitefoiling and in the middle or 4 position if I am prone surfing.Only time I use rear position for surfing ,is for bigger surf or tow surfing.
If you want to make pumping you foils easiest while prone put the mast all the way forward.

kobo
NSW, 255 posts
21 Jan 2020 7:26PM
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Bletti said..
Love my Armstrong hs1550 with 50cm fuse, hs 232 rear wing and +1 shim! Waiting on my preordered Hs1050 which was the main wing I wanted, but I'm impressed with the versatility of the 1550! It is super stable even at full speed going down over head waves at margs main break. I have it fully forward on the tracks too and it never wants to kick me off, yet is nice and responsive! Waiting to try the hs1050 with the hs232 small rear wing first before I cut the rear wing down to be even more responsive.

Ride the Hs1550 with my 2.8m cloud from 17/18 kts, my 3.7m from 14/15kts and my bigger clouds down to 7 kts.



Hey Bletti,
I've got the 60 fuse ,did you notice a big difference with the 50, Im trying to get hold of a hs 232 tail but no one seems to have any stock atm. How long is your mast, Im surprised at how big the waves I can prone my 1550 with 60 and 300 tail , you have the full blown performance setup, be interested to know how much different you setup would feel to mine.
cheers Kobo

wolfieee
5 posts
23 Jan 2020 8:06PM
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Hey Bletti, I sent you a PM asking you some questions about your clouds.
And Kobo - thanks for answering my questions!

PeterSS
2 posts
31 Mar 2020 7:59AM
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Hey Kobo - As you've ridden both the Armstrong and the Infinity i76 - which would you say would make learning foot swaps/ transitions easier? I started with an Alien Air and a Naish Foil ( actually the naish WS1) its a decent enough foil, but doesnt feel that steady when I try to switch feet - actually I always crash. Currently on the longer Dwarf Craft still with the original Naish Ws1. Eager to learn to switch my feet instead of just carving around to Toe Side all the time. Gorgo - good tips on the flying Foot swap. Every time I've tried to get into ski position, Ive crashed. : ( Thank you

kobo
NSW, 255 posts
1 Apr 2020 7:05PM
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The infinity is more roll stable than the Armstrong but I'm not the one to ask about transitions as I mainly prone surfer and the Armstrong is way better for that.

SaltyPaws
1 posts
6 Apr 2020 12:41PM
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Great review! Has anyone tried Armstrong and Moses side by side? Both have good reviews, but I can't find any comparisons. Armstrong seems more surf oriented, while Moses more kite oriented judging from the pictures on their respective Facebook pages. The Armstrong cf wings seem a little thicker than Moses even for eg 633. Does that make a difference for top speed? Anyone using the HS wings for kiting?

Livit
WA, 486 posts
8 Apr 2020 1:10PM
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Just heard that Armstrong has been acquired by the Chinese factory who was already making them... I was quite surprised to hear that given their price tag, I was under the impression that it was own and built in NZ .

Can someone confirm whether this information is true or not?

LeighMajor
NSW, 375 posts
15 Apr 2020 12:27AM
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Hey Livit
I just had a Replacement Armstrong 2400 delivered from Armstrong International in HongKong.
Not sure regards a takeover.
Probably just a production option.

AquaPlow
QLD, 909 posts
30 May 2020 8:39PM
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KB7..
I am about to demo an Armstrong.. (I think only 1550 is available locally).. The weight (!!!) plus review of design and performance quality and tipped the scales..
Currently have an SS Infinity 76.. Sales pitch.. 8 to 22 knots speed range..... But heavy mast/ fittings.. Probably targeting windsurfing specs...
My goal is running ocean swell and non breaking headland waves.. The beach breaks locally often short sharp and shallow.. G8 4 kite/surfboard but way beyond my foiling skillset and interest...
I am 73-75 pies + 6 decades
After reading your xcellent review.. My question
If u were buying from scratch now with current experience..(for kitesurfing) would you choose same combination 1200/800..?? And any further insights appreciated
Cheers
AP

KB7
NSW, 35 posts
31 May 2020 1:26PM
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AquaPlow

I'm still totally happy with the 1200 and 800 combination plus 85cm mast for kitesurfing for my weight 88Kg.

The 1200 is such a versatile wing super smooth and stable especially good in light winds and small to medium waves with plenty of lift for instant launch on a low volume pocket board. I like the 800 allot (use it 50-50 now) now ,use it when wind is over 17 knots or the swell is bigger. I'm going to add the 625 with 232 tail and the 1050 wing soon though, just because I can. The 625 for flat days to go as fast as possible and the 1050 because that might just be the Goldilocks foil for my style of wave kite foiling. I'm also going to start wingding next season so I will get the 1550 or more likely the new 1850 when it comes out.

For pure powered kitesurfing and jamming around at your weight you can't go wrong with the 800 wing and if you want to do downwind gliding then the 1550 would be a good combo. The 1200 is okay downwind with the kite but 1550 will have more glide. If you can test ride then even better.

If you are thinking about using the foil for prone surfing as well get the 72 mast but for kitesurfing the 85 cm is better just more margin for error going though waves and in bigger swell.

The thing about the Armstrong foil system is that it's so good you won't want to change brands again, just buy more wings for a different feel, therefore don't sweat it too much. Just buy one and get riding.

emmafoils
167 posts
2 Jun 2020 3:57PM
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KB7 said..
AquaPlow

I'm still totally happy with the 1200 and 800 combination plus 85cm mast for kitesurfing for my weight 88Kg.

The 1200 is such a versatile wing super smooth and stable especially good in light winds and small to medium waves with plenty of lift for instant launch on a low volume pocket board. I like the 800 allot (use it 50-50 now) now ,use it when wind is over 17 knots or the swell is bigger. I'm going to add the 625 with 232 tail and the 1050 wing soon though, just because I can. The 625 for flat days to go as fast as possible and the 1050 because that might just be the Goldilocks foil for my style of wave kite foiling. I'm also going to start wingding next season so I will get the 1550 or more likely the new 1850 when it comes out.

For pure powered kitesurfing and jamming around at your weight you can't go wrong with the 800 wing and if you want to do downwind gliding then the 1550 would be a good combo. The 1200 is okay downwind with the kite but 1550 will have more glide. If you can test ride then even better.

If you are thinking about using the foil for prone surfing as well get the 72 mast but for kitesurfing the 85 cm is better just more margin for error going though waves and in bigger swell.

The thing about the Armstrong foil system is that it's so good you won't want to change brands again, just buy more wings for a different feel, therefore don't sweat it too much. Just buy one and get riding.


I agree with this 100%. I have the smaller Armstrong foils for kiting and bigger ones for wing-ding (1600, 2400) and a couple of masts. No need to look at anything else. BTW, they are coming out with high aspect foils (not the HS foils).

jamesperth
WA, 577 posts
3 Jun 2020 9:45AM
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great review. Im on the Axis 680 atm but my next foil will be carbon. thats my only gripe - its a bit heavy to carry to the beach.

alverstone
WA, 511 posts
25 Jun 2020 8:17PM
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jamesperth said..
great review. Im on the Axis 680 atm but my next foil will be carbon. thats my only gripe - its a bit heavy to carry to the beach.

Same. My goal for the start of 2021 is an Armstrong to fly with my Flysurfer Peak4s single skins.



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"Armstrong Foil 1200 and 800 review" started by KB7